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American DSO recipients

American DSO recipients
Author: gary (Guest)
Time Stamp:
17:12:03 11 July 2001
Post:
Could someone tell me how many Americans were awarded the DSO in ww2. I have read there was only one in ww1 but I can't find anything on ww2.

thanks

Gary


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: Hugh A. Halliday (Guest)
Time Stamp:
22:24:55 11 July 2001
Post:
Some weeks ago I asked if anyone was compiling a DSO data base comparable to the published works by Carter (DFCs) and Tavender (DFMs). The answer was "no", so I began picking away at one, and have gotten up to about March 1944 - so there is much still to be done. Unfortunately, the information available to me does not encompass biographical material, so the only ones I could confirm as being of American birth would be those who enlisted in the RCAF and subsequently received this award. The name that immediately springs to mind is that of J.C. McCarthy (DSO on the Dambusters raid), but I am certain there were a few more. Among RAF recipients of the DSO, the only American I can think of immediately is Lance Wade. Again, I am sure there were others.

Once the data base is more complete (about six months from now) I would hope that others could help fill in gaps as to units involved, missing citations, and biographical details such as country of birth.

There remains the matter of DSO awards to American USAAF personnel. These are a bit more difficult, because they were NOT reported in the "London Gazette" (I assume they were reported in American Army Air Force documents). Again, because of a Canadian connection, I can name at least one USAAF person awarded a DSO - A.A. Harrington, No.410 Squadron. In this case, I am reasonably sure he is the only USAAF DSO recipient IN AN RCAF SQUADRON - there may be (and probably are) more in non-RCAF units.

This is a progress report that I had not planned to make until the project was further advanced, and is thus quite incomplete.


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: Hugh A. Halliday (Guest)
Time Stamp:
00:06:06 12 July 2001
Post:
I have checked my data bases a bit further, and can add the following as Americans enlisted in the RCAF who received the DSO:

CURTIS, Russell Edward

KALLIO, Oliver Charles

SENGER, William John

STICKELL, John Harlan

For details consult http://www.airforce.ca/citations/index.htm. Hope this helps.


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: N. John Hooper (Guest)
Time Stamp:
13:47:35 12 July 2001
Post:
Thank you Hugh for the research and your note that the Americans were not awarded the DSO as members of the USAAF but as serving members of the RCAF. I would suggest that the award would not be awarded to non-British commonwealth personnel unless they had enlisted in a Commonwealth force and had renounced their citizenship to the US. You might research that point.As an immigrant to the US from the Mother country I am not even recognized as a veteran and when I wear my medals at a military function I get one of two stares:ignored or curious.


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: garyrice
Time Stamp:
15:57:29 12 July 2001
Post:
Thank you for your time on this matter. I was under the impression that all awards were gazzetted regardless of nationality. You have been a great help.

Gary Rice


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: Hugh A. Halliday (Guest)
Time Stamp:
23:17:30 12 July 2001
Post:
I may have inadvertently given the wrong impression about awards of the DSO to Americans (and John Hooper's response is pretty strong evidence that I HAVE been misleading). So let me backtrack and explain.

The original question was "How many Americans were awarded the DSO in the Second Great Unpleasantness". My best answer should have been something like this:

1. Americans who were enrolled members of the RAF, RCAF and other Commonwealth Air Forces would have been entitled to the full range of Commonwealth awards available. I know of five Americans who, as members of the RCAF, were awarded the DSO (see my previous posts) and I am pretty sure that is all there were. I also know of one American (Wade) who won the DSO as a member of the RAF, and strongly believe there were more (but I do not know who they were - at least, not yet, because I have not yet finished my listing of DSO recipents).

2. Americans who were members of the American forces might still have received DSOs because of a policy whereby, on a limited basis, British/Commonwealth personnel received American awards (from Legion of Merit down through Bromze and Silver Star, US DFC, and US Air Medal) - and Americans received British awards on a reciprocal basis. The ratio was roughly 1-1 (i.e. an American award to a British/Commonwealth person was matched by a Commonwealth award to an American). The problem is that, American awards to Australians, Canadians, British, South African and New Zealand personnel were announced in the LONDON GAZETTE, but awards going the other way (i.e. Commonwealth awards to Americans) were not reported in the LONDON GAZETTE (but presumably were reported somewhere else).

If your eyes have not yet glazed over, consider this. Nick and Carol Carter, in their wonderful book (two volumes) on the DFC devote 26 pages to Commonwealth DFCs awarded to USAAF personnel - about 260-300 names. None were reported in the LONDON GAZETTE, and without correspondence with the Carters I do not know where they got the names of these USAAF recipients of the DFC. However, it would be logical to assume that if 260 members of the USAAF were awarded the Commonwealth DFC, then about 25-50 were awarded the Commonwealth DSO. The next question is - who were they ?

The answer may lie in an AIR 2 file in the PRO. Unhappily, the PRO has modified its on-line catalogue and either (a) I have not mastered the new catalogue or (b) the "improved" on-line catalogue is actually a retrograde step. So once more I am compelled to ask, "Is 'I do not know' a legitimate answer ?"


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: gary (Guest)
Time Stamp:
16:49:08 13 July 2001
Post:
Due to the difficulty of the question,your answer is the best around. Thanks again for your help.

Gary Rice


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: Jim Robinson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:03:42 16 July 2001
Post:
Also H C (Nick) Knilans. There is a chapter about him in Chaz Bowyer's "Bomber Barons"

Jim


RE: American DSO recipients
Author: John (Guest)
Time Stamp:
03:20:55 17 July 2001
Post:

Addition:- C.G.Peterson DSO,DFC 71 Squadron


RE: American DSO recipients: Caine P.D. AMERICAN PILOTS IN THE R.A.F.
Author: Don Clark (Guest)
Time Stamp:
04:36:49 05 August 2001
Post:
Caine P.D. AMERICAN PILOTS IN THE R.A.F. The WWII Eagle Squadrons. Brassey's. 1993 Tells the personal stories of how these units were formed, their combat experiences and contribution to Britain's defence in the early stages of the war. 417pp. 25+ illust.

Any use?



RE: American DSO recipients: Caine P.D. AMERICAN PILOTS IN THE R.A.F.
Author: John Wright (Guest)
Time Stamp:
14:06:40 05 August 2001
Post:
the book 'The Eagles War' by Vern Haugland lists the awards to the Eagle Squadrons 40 awards to 31 members [some were British] the awards were distributed equally between Americans and British 20 awards to 17 Americans and 20 awards to 14 British