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Lancaster VS Junkers 88

Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
14:57:44 Tuesday, April 16, 2002
Post:
Around midnight on the 2nd of may 1945, a Junkers 88 from 4/NJG 3 from Kjevik, makes contact with a Lancaster from 463.Sqn ( RAAF ) which were on it's way to bomb the Vall%F8 oil refinery at T%F8nsberg. After some fierce fighting over the little village of Iveland the Junkers crashed into the ground, and the crew were killed.

My questions are as follows:

Where did the Lancaster take off from, which unit did it belong to, what was it's markings, who was the crew of the plane on this night,and did they succeed in their bombing mission. Perhaps someone has something else of information that is interesting? Pictures will of course be greatly appreciated!

Regards Thomas


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
19:23:40 Tuesday, April 16, 2002
Post:
Forgot to mention that this happened in the southern part of Norway.


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Jack Powers (Guest)
Time Stamp:
05:50:51 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
I can't help with any information about this action. I must say that this result was unusual with the JU 88 being the loser. With the upward firing cannon, the German pilot had a distinct advantage. With the " scrague musik " technique the Lancaster crews were not aware they were being attacked. Most of the Lancaster losses in the latter part of the war were victims of this manner of attack.


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Floyd Williston (Guest)
Time Stamp:
06:46:04 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
A 463 Sq.Lanc, RA542 JO-Z,took off from Waddington at 2014 on April 25/45 and had a similar experience as you describe. The same target.



The Lanc crew (F/O A. Cox/skipper) were interned after they landed at Satenas airfield. Three were wounded and suffered frostbite



Nothing in Bomber Command losses for May 2/3/45.



(Floyd)


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
07:55:03 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
Thanks again Floyd. This must be correct, if there weren't any other lancaster's with the same experience, on this particular day. Do you think anyone can have information on the german crew as well?

Regards Thomas


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Chris_Pointon
Time Stamp:
09:10:01 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
Thomas - You will find some details about this incident on http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/Archive/Pdat463/coxa.htm.

3 of the RAFVR crew were decorated F/O A.Cox Pilot and F/O J.Wainwright Nav were awarded DSO's and F/S G. Simpson F/Eng was awarded a C.G.M.

Chris


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
17:24:44 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 17-Apr-02 AT 05:55 PM (GMT)[/font][p]Thanks Chris. Really helpful information, but i wonder if some of my information is incorrect, cause the date i have been given is 2nd of may 1945 for this event.



RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Chris_Pointon
Time Stamp:
18:54:45 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
Thomas - Your date is incorrect as from the diary this was the last operation of the war carried out by 463/467 Sqdn.

25/26-4-1945, Tonsberg:

467 Sq sent 14 a/c and 463 Sq 14 a/c to join 107 Lancasters and 12 marker Mosquitos of 5 Group attacking the oil refinery and U boat fuelling depot in this town in Southern Norway. The attack was accurately carried out and the target was severely damaged. Bill Chorley states that Lancaster 1 RA542 JO-Z took off at 2014 from Waddington - shortly before entering the target area and flying at 19000ft it was attacked by a JU88 which may have been shot down in a furious exchange of shots. The Lancaster badly damaged force landed at Satenas where the crew were interned - the aircraft was repaired by the Swedish Air Force but it is not known if it ever flew again. The aircraft was broken down for scrap on 23rd August 1946.

Chris


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
20:19:04 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
Think it must have been a typo in the information i have here. Because there was an eyewitness to this crash, and he claims that it was downed on the 2nd of may. But if 25/26 of april was the last date this squadron flew missions on, that could not be right. I will it check with my "informant" once again.

Thanks

Thomas


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Chris_Pointon
Time Stamp:
22:39:21 Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Post:
Thomas - The last bombing raid of the war was on 2/3 May but it was Kiel - mainly Mosquitos with a back up force of 100 Group Halifaxes.

Chris


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Laurent (Guest)
Time Stamp:
09:56:33 Thursday, April 18, 2002
Post:
http://home.online.no/%7Eodybvig/Losses/tap45.html is a list of known losses in 1945 in Norway.

One Ju88G of NachtjagdSchwarm Norwegen was lost on 25/4/45 near Lista, shot down. Fw. Kurt Gross (F) KIA Ufz. Reinhard Johnsen (Bf) KIA Fw. Otto M%FCller (Bs) KIA.

Maybe your plane ?


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Thomas
Time Stamp:
14:00:01 Thursday, April 18, 2002
Post:
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 18-Apr-02 AT 02:03 PM (GMT)[/font][p]I have searched that list now, but this is getting weird. Right below the plane that crashed on Lista, is also listed a Junkers 88G-6. This aircraft in fact crashed in Iveland on the 3rd of may 1945. The info i have gathered so far claims that it all happened on the night of the 2nd of may. But this do not compare to the info from the 463rd squadron. Perhaps the germans were a little slow when logging their losses? I am a little confused now..


RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Anders (Guest)
Time Stamp:
12:12:43 Thursday, April 18, 2002
Post:
Hej postar bild till dig p%E5 Lanc st%E5endes p%E5 S%E5ten%E4s

H%E4lsningar Anders

Thomas u should soon recive a pic of that Lanc

(it standing at S%E5ten%E4s) ..

regards Anders



RE: Lancaster VS Junkers 88
Author: Jack Powers (Guest)
Time Stamp:
03:23:22 Friday, April 19, 2002
Post:
The fact that this crew attracted the awards of 2 DSO's and a CGM illustrates the outstanding achievement of this action. As I mentioned previously, the JU 88 pilot had an enormous advantage. He could approach his prey from below and remain unsighted. Once he got into the rhythm of his target's evasive movements, he could direct the fire of his cannon into the cockpit or the engines.

A friend of mine who piloted Lancasters completed a tour late 44 early 45. The authorities were very much aware of the Luftwaffe

tactics but chose not to inform the crews because there was little they could do. My friend was very surprised when I informed him.