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Casualties - 15 (P)AFU

Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Dave_Johnson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
13:27:57 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Hello everyone,

More assistance needed!

I am indebted to John Larder for providing me with information linking three airmen buried in Brigg Cemetery to this unit (and related aircraft). 15 (P)AFU - (Pilot)Advanced Flying Unit - was based at Leconfield during the dates concerned, but perhaps more tellingly, was utilising Kirmington as a relief landing ground.

4/5/42 Sgt Allan Barnes GOFF RCAF (R/97509) - Oxford AT739

9/9/42 Sgt Charles Glynn JONES RNZAF (413083) - Oxford BG270

13/10/42 F/S John Neil MacIVER RCAF (R/92757) - Oxford ??

Additionally, three further airmen in the cemetery share corresponding dates of death with two of the above:

9/9/42 Sgt Morris Randolph MITCHELL RAF (605448)

13/10/42 F/O Angus MURRAY RAFVR (118885)

13/10/42 AC2 Harold TRAVERSE RAFVR (1425232)

Having gleaned available information from the CWGC site I would appreciate any contributions which might shed light on the nature of the "incidents," and persons/units involved.

Many thanks,

Dave.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
15:33:21 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Not much, but every peace helps to solve a puzzle.

AT739 - engine cut, flew into ground Barnetby near Digby.

BG270 - Failed to climb after night take off from Kirmington and hit high ground SSE of base - 00.30h. Sgt MITCHELL was the second occupant.

Sorry no more on MacIVER, MURRAY and TRAVERSE.

Regards,

Henk.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: errol.martyn@xtra.co.nz (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:11:38 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Dave,

Ref Jones & Mitchell: The following is an extract from Volume One (Fates: 1915-1942) of my trilogy ‘For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915’:

Tue 8/Wed 9 Sep 1942

Flying Training Command

Dual check

15 (Pilots) Advanced Flying Unit, RAF (Leconfield, Yorkshire; satellite at Kirmington, Lincolnshire - 21 Group)

Oxford I BG270 - took off from Kirmington at about 0030, but failed to climb away and crashed a few minutes later into rising ground, catching fire SSE of the airfield. The two pilots are buried at Brigg, Lincolnshire. Subsequent investigation raised concern that the instructor had been overworked and that fatigue may have been a factor leading to the accident.

Pilot Instr: NZ413083 Sgt Charles Glynn JONES, RNZAF - Age 20. 450hrs (309 solo - 266 on Oxford)

Cheers,

Errol


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Alan Smith (Guest)
Time Stamp:
15:46:27 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Dave,

15PAFU lost Oxford EB984 on this date when it hit a tree on approach and crashed at Acaster Malbis but have no details of the crew.

Regards,

Alan


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
16:19:50 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
In "They Shall Grow Not Old" crash location for F/Sgt John N. McIVER given as "5 miles north of Riccall". Could this be the same or close to Acaster Malbis?

Cheers,

Henk.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Dave_Johnson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
16:25:31 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Henk/Alan

I am very grateful for the information you impart. It does sometimes feel that for every question "answered" two others are posed! In this regard I believe that two further airmen resting in Brigg Cemetery might also be associated with 15 (P)AFU given their date of death;

22/9/42 WO2 Nickolas HREHORAK RCAF (R/86111)

22/9/42 F/Sgt Robert Lyle McCULLOCH RCAF (R/107653)

Thanks to both of you,

Regards,

Dave.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: PatSr (Guest)
Time Stamp:
16:22:08 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
From "THEY SHALL GROW NOT OLD"

MACIVER, JOHN NEIL, F/S, Pilot. MacIver was killed when his Oxford aircraft crashed at night five miles north of RAF Station Riccall, England. Flight Sergeant Pilot MacIver is buried in the Brigg Cemetery, Lincolnshire, England.

He was from Calgary, Alberta. Age 21. PatSr.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Chris Pointon (Guest)
Time Stamp:
18:30:28 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Dave - WO2 Nickolas HREHORAK RCAF (R/86111)and F/Sgt Robert Lyle McCULLOCH RCAF (R/107653) both died in a 103 Sqdn Halifax which despite my efforts I still cannot find the details of. 'They Shall Not Grow Old' states that they were returning from a raid but that is not true and it was a training accident.

Chris



RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: errol.martyn@xtra.co.nz (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:28:00 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Chris,

Ref your 103 Halifax query : A bit of a long shot, but there may be some connection here with the following entry extracted from Volume One (Fates: 1915-1942) of my trilogy ‘ For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915’:

Tue 22 Sep 1942

Bomber Command

Conversion flying

460 Conversion Flight, RAAF (Holme-on-Spalding Moor, Yorkshire - 1 Group)

Halifax II W1272 - spun out of control from a considerable height at 1012 and crashed a quarter mile east of Middle Farm near Catterton, 19 miles WNW of the base. All four occupants died, the New Zealander being buried at Harrogate. It was thought that control might have been lost during a ‘rudder stall’ demonstration. The Conversion Flight was affiliated to 460 Sqn based nearby at Breighton .

Pilot Instr(?): NZ401031 Fg Off John William PURCIVALL, DFC, RNZAF - Age 30. 709hrs (482 solo - 67 on Halifax) 32 ops.

One of the others on board was Flt Lt J A Falkiner, RAAF, who is buried in Wootton (St Lawrence) Churchyard. The other two names unknown, though Bill Chorley's Vol VIII may well provide them.

Purcivall's record of service includes a number of confusing and unexplained penultimate or last posting references to 103 Sqn.

Cheers,

Errol


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Linzee (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:35:19 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Chris/Dave,

I see a Hrehorak listed as a 2nd Pilot with 35 Squadron in the ORB's for early 1942. He vanishes without explanation - ie it's not mentioned in the Monthly Summaries and he's not lost on ops - about early May 1942. No initial is given and his rank at the time was Sgt. I wonder if it is the same man since it's not a terribly common name I wouldn't think? 35 Sqdn were flying Halifax at the time.

Regards

Linzee


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: EddieFell
Time Stamp:
20:14:24 Thursday, December 11, 2003
Post:
Henk

Riccall is very close to Acaster Malbis and both are close to the River Ouse, the mists from which caused the loss of aircraft from W and X flights of 15 (P)AFU.

Eddie


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Chris Pointon (Guest)
Time Stamp:
00:37:23 Friday, November 14, 2003
Post:
I am pleased to announce that I have now found out the following:

22/09/42 W1243 Halifax 103 Sqdn Conversion Flight crashed nr Elsham Wolds whilst crew training. (No other details)

Pilot 562690 W/O R.J Fulbrook D.F.C rests in Twyford Surrey

2nd Pilot R/86111 WO2 N.Hrehorak RCAF rests in Brigg C.W.G

2nd Pilot 120477 F/Sgt F.W.Hill rests in Solihull West Midlands

Flt/Eng 626965 Sgt J.P Wolfenden rests in Bootle Merseyside

A.G R/107653 F/Sgt R.L McCulloch RCAF rests in Brigg C.W.G

A.G 1313491 Sgt D.R. Evans rest in Mountain Ash Glamorgan

I am indebted to David Fell of 103 Sqdn Association for helping us out on this one which gave me enough problems the last time I researched it a couple of years back.



RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
10:54:12 Friday, November 14, 2003
Post:
Also was a black spot in my files. Chorley would have solved the problem in the near future but also happy that this entry was made on the board. Thank you.

Regards,

Henk.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: John Larder (Guest)
Time Stamp:
23:39:43 Sunday, January 12, 2003
Post:
Dave

Sgt. McIver in Oxford AP395. Pupil was Sgt. H.S. Cutler (1236174).


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Dave Johnson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
15:01:24 Wednesday, February 12, 2003
Post:
John

Thanks for this new information. With F/Sgt MacIver aboard Oxford AP395 I'm left to ponder whether F/O Murray and AC2 Traverse were linked to Oxford EB984 which, thanks to Alan S., was also known to have been lost on this date ? (13/10/42).

Regards,

Dave.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Henk Welting (Guest)
Time Stamp:
20:54:18 Wednesday, February 12, 2003
Post:
Another info on this subject wrongly placed on the entry "Air Accident 18/7/43".

Sorry for the omission.

Henk.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Dave Johnson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:43:17 Wednesday, February 12, 2003
Post:
Henk

Thank you for the details pertaining to Sgt McBryde RCAF.The portents are promising!! I'm hopeful that in providing this information someone will confirm, or otherwise, a link to F/O Murray, AC2 Traverse and Oxford EB984.

Regards,

Dave.


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: John Larder (Guest)
Time Stamp:
16:13:14 Monday, May 12, 2003
Post:
Dave

To put us all out of our misery I have written to AHB for the outstanding men in Brigg. Will let you know when the answer comes through. With luck we could start 2004 with Brigg sorted. What's next?


RE: Casualties - 15 (P)AFU
Author: Dave Johnson (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:02:13 Monday, May 12, 2003
Post:
John

Just three airmen left! Promise. With Murray, Traverse and Flt/Lt Walsh "explained" the Brigg saga might, forgive the pun, be (temporarily) put to rest.

As for 2004? Work on my local fields; Elsham, Kirmington and North Killingholme should provide plenty of conjecture.

Thanks for your continued help and perseverance,

Regards,

Dave.