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158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943

158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: Gilberti dan (Guest)
Time Stamp:
15:43:21 17 April 2005
Post:
Good evening,

I searching infos about one bombing mission on the Sochaux Motor Factory and (essentialy for me)on Besan%E7on railway in the night

15 to 16 july 1943

This is same mission with 2 Targets, perhaps Target Besan%E7on is for disturb nachtj%E4gers ...

Unity is certainly 158 th squad Lisset ?

We have 165 bombers (all halifax ?)

152 are used for Sochaux essential target

13 used on Besan%E7on

6 are missed during raid and return by NJG & DCA ?

---------------------------------------------------

My research: one Halifax crashed in plain center of the Besan%E7on Railway station, diverse srious witness says it's a collision with one german Nachj%E4ger ...

Who can help with dtails about the crash and serial from this halifax ...

I have 2 Do 217 crashed this same night in relation with the mission, one in La Barre (Jura)from 5./NJG4 and one other not found missed by 6./NJG4, perhaps it's this who make collision with the Halifax ...

Thanks by advance

Best regards, Dan

WWW.Histavia21.net



Note: 158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: Gilerti Dan (Guest)
Time Stamp:
15:52:32 17 April 2005
Post:
Note for this same night we have one second mission over Italy,

617th squadron who use perhaps short stirling and lancasters ..

And in Lw datas, we found one stirling shooting down in Besan%E7on ...

16.07.43 Hptm. Hubert Rauh 5./JNG 4 Halifax %A3 500 m. E. Sacquenay: 2.500 m. [Dijon] 01.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.10

16.07.43 Uffz. Philipps 6./NJG 4 Stirling %A3 Beranron: 3.000 m. 01.36 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.18

16.07.43 Fw. Sp%E4te 5./NJG 4 Lancaster %A3 Recey-sur-Ourthe: 2.000 m. 02.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.11

Not easy ...


RE: Note: 158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: EddieFell
Time Stamp:
16:21:27 17 April 2005
Post:
Hi Dan

158 Squadron lost one aircraft that night attacking the Peugot factory in the Montbeliard suburb of Sochaux.

It was HR752 NP-T with the crew of

F/Sgt. R. Deans Pilot(Killed)

F/Sgt. J. Little Nav(Evaded)

Sgt. G.G. Arnold Air Bomber(Evaded)

Sgt. D.G. Bingley W.Op (Killed)

Sgt. D.S. Loveland MUG(Killed)

Sgt. I.R.L. Acton-Hill R/G (Killed)

Sgt. V.C. Wainwright F/Eng (Killed)

The aircraft crashed near Sacquenay.

It seems that the Pilot refused to jump until his crew were out (according to the F/Eng)in his report after he was liberated.

The following is taken from the book 'In Brave Company' by W.R. Chorley.

The aircraft was shot down by a night fighter at Sacquenay, north east of Dijon. Four of the crew were killed, one captured and two evaded capture. Madame Boisselier, who lived close to the crash site recalled

‘After a great noise during the night, my brother and I went to where the plane had crashed. Two airmen were in Monsieur Rebiet’s house, the first in the village. A lot of people from the village were around them, but nobody was taking any decisions. We had to save them and quickly, so I took one of them by his sleeve and without a word they understood.

We went back on the road, the four of us, pushing our bicycles. Our village, Mormentier was only a few kilometres from the crash where four airmen were lying and one was wounded. With regret we did not find this man and he was taken prisoner. Coming into the village at about 4 o’clock in the morning, we saw on our left - about fifty metres away - a small group of people. My brother approached them while I carried on to our home. He was very surprised to find about ten ‘boches’ and in order to make them go out of the village he told them that an English plane was ‘kaput’. They were very happy and asked him to take them to the place for they did not know the area and the crash site was masked by fir trees. The Germans, he discovered, had been guarding a canal about ten kilometres away.

After speaking with the aircrew, we hid them in a nearby farm which was unoccupied. We understood that it was dangerous for us, so in order not to draw attention we all went to bed as more ‘boches’ were passing by our house. During the next morning we hid the airmen in some bushes and several times I visited them with food and civilian clothes. However, we could not keep them any longer for everybody was knowing they were with us. That night Monsieur Charles Laurent from Orain came to take them away. They crossed the canal in front of the ‘boches’ disguised as anglers. Three months later I went to bring back the fishing rods. The airmen stayed with Monsieur Laurent for about three weeks and after that we heard no news of them.’

This doesn't seem to tie up with your own information but I hope it helps

Cheers

Eddie



RE: Note: 158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: EddieFell
Time Stamp:
16:30:11 17 April 2005
Post:
Hi again

Looking at your second message it seems that Rauh shot down the 158 Sqn aircraft rather than it having collided.

Cheers

Eddie


RE: Note: 158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: EddieFell
Time Stamp:
16:59:21 17 April 2005
Post:
The following is taken from

'The Bomber Command War Diaries' (Middlebrook/Everett)

Montbeliard

The outcome of this raid illustrates again the difficulties of hitting relatively small targets in the occupied countries and the danger to surrounding civilians. The night was clear, the target was only lightly defended and the attack altitude was 6,000 to 10,000 feet, but the centre of the group of markers dropped by the Pathfinder crews of 35 Squadron was 700 yards beyond the factory. The local report says that approximately 30 bombs fell in the factory but 600 fell in the town. 123 civilians were killed and 336 injured. The factory was classed as 5% damaged; the production was normal after the raid.

The same source says 165 Halifaxes - 134 from 4 Group and 31 from 8 Group (the Pathfinders). No Stirlings are shown as being involved.

617 Squadron

This was their first raid (with 12 aircraft)since the Dams and the targets were 2 electrical tansformers stations in Northern Italy, one near Bologna and the other near Genoa. 2 Lancasters of the supporting force (from 12 aircraft of the other 5 Group squadrons),were lost

Cheers

Eddie


RE: Note: 158 th Squad and Sochaux bombing mission 15/ 16 July 1943
Author: Thank eddie (Guest)
Time Stamp:
19:22:28 17 April 2005
Post:
Many thanks Eddie for your interest and time for response to my Call-search,

first part about Sacquenay, me interseting too because, it's one other file i need to complet prochainly, i have others datas and perhaps pictures about, diverses dtails you have given to me certainly really precious !

For second parts, i understand we have only Halifax on this opration, it's one element to considere...

For collaterals dammages and effects of this missions, it's one element from our history, the just price for freedom was hight and difficult for all ...

In a period circa 1960 Besan%E7on bombing was difficult to abbord/say/explain for British services, now the probl%E8m is not same, just real history is important,we know besan%E7on was just a disturb for essential mission to bombing Sochaux, no chance...

For the rest,it's absolutly sure one Halifax fall in the plain center of Raillway Station Besan%E7on-Viotte,

no sure perhaps, the collision with the Nachtj%E4gers ...

Cheers, dan