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Target Codes

Target Codes
Author: Greg
Time Stamp:
15:13:45 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Hi all,

I'm hoping that someone with the relavant records can help me out with a couple of target codes here. On the night of the 1st / 2nd Of January 1941, 1 Group attacked targets "D11" and "D2". Can anyone shed any light as to what they may be - a quick look in BCWD suggests either Bremen or one of the ports along the Dutch / French / Belgian coastline, but if anyone can provide detail i'd be grateful.

Thanks in advance.

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,

But you can't take Wales out of the boy..."


RE: Target Codes
Author: Greg
Time Stamp:
15:44:28 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
I'm sure that answering my own question will be found amusing by all, but i've now found the answer to my question in my own files, in the copies i made of the "Summaries of 1 Group Form E Reports" i made at the PRO last year.

And i haven't even had a pint yet this afternoon.....

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,

But you can't take Wales out of the boy..."


RE: Target Codes
Author: Resmoroh
Time Stamp:
16:47:39 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Greg,

Where you been Oh Lovely Boy????

Your Welsh Words Of Wisdom been sorely missed from these air-waves for many a moon!

Good to see you back! Still sticking 'stickers' on Her Majesty's Trains??

Good to see you back!

Rgds

Peter Davies



RE: Target Codes
Author: Hans Ooms (Guest)
Time Stamp:
17:25:29 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Hi there Greggy... are you groggy ?? Hahaha.

How are things going at home ?

Good to see you back here on the board !

Cherio,

Hans

from the other site of the water..


RE: Target Codes
Author: ianh (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:31:27 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Hi Greg

Long time no hear. Wow. That must've been some hangover! :-)

Could you maybe enlighten us of the results of your self-answered query? I asked a question or two on this very subject some months ago, with only limited success. Smudger had said he'd send me a list but it never arrived. I have however got some notes of potential leads for files to follow-up at Kew which I'm still hoping and intending to do when I have a few spare hours.

I don't know if this is correct but from what I've managed to obtain there does seem to be a sort of logical pattern emerging for the target codes that I'd found being used between June and August 1940. You (or others) might be able to say if this is correct but "A-" targets seem to be synthetic oil targets; 'B', power stations; 'D', docks and shipyards; 'F', aircraft factories; 'G', engineering works (?); 'K', airfields; 'M', not known - maybe 'towns'; and 'Z', possibly targets outside Germany. I'm not 100% sure but this seems to be the way it's going.

So can you say if this ties in with what you've found?

And what did you work out "D2" and "D11" to be?

Best regards as always

Ian



RE: Target Codes
Author: ianh (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:33:36 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Forgot to say, I have "D2" as the Blohm & Voss Submarine Yard at Hamburg.

Does that tie-in with what you reckon?

Ian



RE: Target Codes
Author: errol.martyn@xtra.co.nz (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:44:39 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Greg,

I was worried that you might have been suffering from post-traumatic rugby loss syndrome...!

Errol


RE: Target Codes
Author: ianh (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:46:34 Saturday, February 10, 2007
Post:
Unkind. But amusing.


RE: Target Codes
Author: Arculus
Time Stamp:
01:01:41 Saturday, March 10, 2007
Post:
Well done Errol, sorry Greg.

Even I, a Surreyite, feels this way downunder.

Digger



RE: Target Codes
Author: Greg
Time Stamp:
06:50:11 Saturday, March 10, 2007
Post:
Well hello chaps, many thanks for the warm welcome back!! Apologies for my prolonged absence, Mrs Greg issued forth the third of our daughters on July the 4th and things have been rather hectic ever since. No sooner had things settled down into a nice routine than the Rugby World Cup was upon us. Least said the better there i think!! Suffice to say i have put my own name forward to play for Wales in the 6 Nations next year. I may be nearly 40, and haven't played rugby for nigh on 20 years, but i couldn't do any worse than the current incumbents have done.... ;)

Peter - if you live anywhere near the Great Western Mainline, check out Inter City 125 Power Car no. 43025 - it has a 1 Group sticker and a 100 Squadron sticker on the streamline fairing just under the nose!! Not me guv'nor, honest.... ;)

Hans - everything is great at home thanks. Aside from the fact i now have 3 daughters, which means 3 weddings and a constant wait in years to come, to get into the bathroom. Even our pet cat is female, whatever did i do to deserve it...??!!

Ian - I'm still suffering with the alcohol-induced aftershocks of my sorrow-drowning after Saturday's debacle!! There's no-one prouder than me to put on a Wales shirt, but by crikey they make it difficult for us sometimes.... :)

Errol - when you support the Taffs you get used to losing!! We always look on the dark side, if we win we just moan about the fact the pubs are so full we can't get a pint... ;)

Digger - There'll come a day when Errol's boys lose. It may be another lifetime yet, but when they do, i'll be sure Errol knows all about it!! :)

Anyway, enough off-topic ramblings. Ian, thanks for your contribution to my target codes question. In a rare, and doubtless fleeting moment of common sense, i've created a spreadsheet with target codes, and the targets to which i believe they apply. I'll cross-reference it with the Squadron ORBs over the next week or two, and then post the results here for all to see, and correct / augment as necassary.

In the meantime..... c'mon Fiji!! :)

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,

But you can't take Wales out of the boy..."


RE: Target Codes
Author: ianh (Guest)
Time Stamp:
21:44:25 Thursday, May 10, 2007
Post:
Hi Greg

As mentioned elsewhere, had a good day up at Kew yesterday.

On Target Codes I found a couple of cracking records:

Air 10/3994

(a book of over 100 pages, dated November 1940)

"Bomb Targets in Germany - Conversion Table Air Ministry Number to New Operational Number".

Initially, it seems, all targets had been given an "Air Ministry Number" (I don't know where that was used) and an "Old Operational Number". This latter is the one such as you have asked about: "D2", "D11" or whatever.

At about this time in 1940 it seems they changed all the target codes so this book is a list of 3 columns so you can convert the "Air Ministry No." and the "Old Operational Number" to each target's corresponding "New Operational Number". However this book, as the name says, is just a 'conversion table'. It doesn't tell you what the individual targets were, although it does show that the "Old" codes were split into categories and sub-categories.

But if you then look in:

Air 10/3993.

(200+ pages, dated September 1940)

"Operation Numbers of Bomb Targets in Germany" that will tell you what each target was, from looking up its 'new' code.

So for example:

Air Ministry Number "1(a)(ii) 7" / Old Operational Number "A.7" became New Op No "GQ - 1632".

Both books are set out into sections, based upon the Old Code initial letter. I was pleased to see that I wasn't far out in my earlier guess of these target groups:

"A" targets are the 'Fuel Group'. This group is broken down into sub-categories for 'Oil Refineries'; 'Synthetic Oil' (targets A61 through to A120 for example); 'Oil - Stocks and Reserves'; 'Underground Storage'; 'Oil - Machinery'; 'Coke Oven Batteries'; and 'Coal Gas Works'.

"B" targets are the 'Power Group' (again numerous sub-categories, including 'Power Stations', 'Reservoirs', 'Dams', etc)

"C" targets = 'Chemical and Explosive Group' targets

"D" = 'Naval Armaments'

"E" = 'Land Armaments'

"F" = 'Air Armaments'

"G" = a mixture of 'Aircraft Components', 'General Engineering' and 'Electrical Engineering' targets

"H" = 'Aerodromes'

"K" = 'Air Depots', 'Air Parks', and 'Aircraft Stores and Equipment'

"L" = 'Mining and Metallurgy'

"M" = 'Transportation' targets including 'Canals' (M1 to M9), 'Railway Sidings' (M101 to M124), 'Railway Marshalling Yards' (M430 to M508), and 'Bridges' (M131 to M170)

"N" = 'Foodstuffs' and 'Soap Factories'

"P" = 'Tele-Communication Factories' and 'Optical Glass Factories'.

Each individual target is then named by reference to its New Operational code in the second book.

So referring to your query about targets "D2" and "D11", by using these books in combination you find:

"D2" lies within the sub-category of 'Shipbuilding Yards - Building Warships' of the 'Naval Armaments' target category (Target group 'D') and was re-coded as "GR-3587". That is then specifically named as "Hamburg - Blohm & Voss Komm. Ges. Auf Akt".

Similarly "D11" became "GR3576":

Again 'D' = 'Naval Armaments' target group with "D11" in the Warship Shipbuilding Yards sub-category, and specifically:

"GR3576" = "Bremerhaven - Deschimag Shipyard (Seebeck yard)".

So there you are.

Sorry if this has been a bit long-winded but I thought I'd try to explain what the contents were and how they'd help you find any of the obscure coded targets that you might find refered to in an ORB.

They have certainly given me the answers to a whole load of targets which I only had as code numbers. Result!

Worth a look if you're up there. As long as I don't want it at the same time! :-)

Hope this helps and maybe I'll catch you next time for that beer.

Perhaps Ross should add something to the website so that Forumites can see who else is going up to Kew on a particular day, so they could meet up if they want to. Or maybe not. Sounds too much like a dating agency then! :-) :-)

Cheers anyway

Ian



RE: Target Codes
Author: Arculus
Time Stamp:
22:01:30 Thursday, May 10, 2007
Post:
Ian,

Well done that man!

Many thanks indeed for your posting, most usefu.

Cheers from a sunny Auckland,

Digger.