"Message for Pierre Renier"

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Highgroundsman (0 posts) 20-Aug-05, 11:11 PM (GMT) "Message for Pierre Renier" LAST EDITED ON 20-Aug-05 AT 11:33 PM (GMT) Hello Pierre, Being an expert on PRUs Have you any details please on the mission of a Spitfire X4501 of 1 PRU on 22/7/1941. The aircraft crash-landed on Fair Isle, Shetland Isles on return from this mission,Pilot. F/O. Michael Douglas Sutcliffe Hood. Regards. Dave   Top

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Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 21-Aug-05 1    RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 21-Aug-05 2        RE: Message for Pierre Renier Ian Brown (Guest) 21-Aug-05 3            RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 21-Aug-05 4                RE: Message for Pierre Renier Ian Brown (Guest) 21-Aug-05 5                    RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 21-Aug-05 6                        RE: Message for Pierre Renier Pierre Renier (Guest) 21-Aug-05 7                            RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 22-Aug-05 8                                RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 10                            RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 9                                RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 22-Aug-05 11                                    RE: Message for Pierre Renier Rene Romainville (Guest) 22-Aug-05 12                                        RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 22-Aug-05 13                                            RE: Message for Pierre Renier Rene Romainville (Guest) 22-Aug-05 14                                                RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 22-Aug-05 15                                                RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 21                                                    RE: Message for Pierre Renier Rene Romainville (Guest) 23-Aug-05 22                                            RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 17                                    RE: Message for Pierre Renier Pierre Renier (Guest) 22-Aug-05 16                                        RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 18                                    RE: Message for Pierre Renier von_Shagmeister 22-Aug-05 19                                        RE: Message for Pierre Renier Highgroundsman 22-Aug-05 20

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von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 21-Aug-05, 09:09 AM (GMT) 1. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" 22/7/41 "F/L M. Hood DFC obtained photographs of Aalesund from 27,000 ft. Owing to engine trouble he was forced to make a "belly" landing on Fair Isle - the aircraft was completely written off but the pilot escaped uninjured." His rank is given as F/L although I believe he wasn't promoted to F/L until 03Sep41 (probably acting F/L at time). Regards von Shagmeister   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 21-Aug-05, 12:20 PM (GMT) 2. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Thanks Andrew, Just a small note though, the Spitfire was only Cat B and dismantled, taken off the Isle by boat and flew again until written off in another crash at Rathin,Aberdeenshire on 22/1/43 while with 8 OTU pilot Sgt F.V.Mooney suvived but was Injured. Regards. Dave.   Top

Ian Brown (Guest) (844 posts) 21-Aug-05, 01:53 PM (GMT) 3. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" I can confirm that X4501 was indeed repaired, although I understand it was originally struck off charge. Following a wheels-up landing, it was repaired by Scottish Aviation Limited and I have a photo of the aircraft being lifted up using an 'A' frame. Very bent props, but no other major damage visible.   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 21-Aug-05, 01:57 PM (GMT) 4. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hi Ian, Thanks for your note .You are correct, from a witness on Fair Isle the aircraft suffered damage to underside and props, was originally thought to be beyond repair but on examination by the salvage team recatagorized. You say you have a picture. Any chance of a scan please? Regards. Dave.   Top

Ian Brown (Guest) (844 posts) 21-Aug-05, 02:06 PM (GMT) 5. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Sure, let me have your email address.   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 21-Aug-05, 02:31 PM (GMT) 6. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Thanks Ian, My e-mail address is: daveATearl25.fsnet.co.uk replace the AT with @ this is just to avoid spammers. Will e-mail you back when pic arrives. Thanks again! Dave.   Top

Pierre Renier (Guest) (125 posts) 21-Aug-05, 10:23 PM (GMT) 7. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hello Dave Not much that I can add I'm afraid to what has already been posted here, other than a brief extract from 1PRU's ORB for 22Jul’41 Form 540 which states:- "Spitfire V X.4501 Merlin XLV 37043 desp. To 43 Gp.Dep.Acct." The Form 541, shows no reference to this sortie by F/O Hood (which is the rank he is listed as for sorties earlier that month) though this is not uncommon in the early years even when there are successful sorties let alone those that came a cropper! Very frustrating when trying to ID pilots and a/c. I know there is a lot more detail that is available for the early war sorties, but as I only selectively copied material relevant to Channel Island's, so I do have data gaps, that hopefully someday can be filled. There is a possibility that the sortie code is N/236, but I would not like to go further on that without finding out more about the task assigned to F/O Hood. I presume Andrew's posting above has either come from a book or one of the PRU Flight appendices not available on microfilm. Kind regards Pierre   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 00:21 AM (GMT) 8. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Thanks Pierre, I`ve got a pretty good picture now of the whole chain of events so code not being positive won`t matter.Though if you can find out at some latter stage before I write up a story,code would be welcome. One thing I am not sure of is whether F/O (A/F.LT)Hood was alone on this Op, or whether there was No2 with him? I note the pilot on Copinsay Acott was flying in a pair with F/O Cussons. If so Who was his No2 on 27/4/42? Thanks again. Regards. Dave.   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 01:40 PM (GMT) 10. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hi Dave, Got the following sortie on the 27-Apr-42 Wick (Sortie F/31) P/O De Puysseleyr obtained photographs of Aasfjord, Lofjord, Hopleelven, Trondheim, Aarrnes A/D and Hommelviken from 25,000 ft revealing shipping and aerodrome information - Tirpitz is at her usual postion in Aasfjord and Hipper has returned to her previous moorings in Lofjord. Prinz Eugen and the cargo liner remain at their positions in Lofjord. Regards von Shagmeister   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 01:28 PM (GMT) 9. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" >Hello Dave > > >I presume Andrew's posting above has >either come from a book >or one of the PRU >Flight appendices not available on >microfilm. > >Kind regards >Pierre Hi Pierre, I got the info from a copy of the diary of the chief photographic interpretor at Benson. It doesn't detail all sorties but mentions significant missions or events. It covers the period Nov-39 to 06-Dec-43 (No2 Camouflage Unit > PDU > 1 PRU > 54x Sqn). The detail gets vague towards the end of 43. I was lucky to get a copy as a friend of mine who works at Benson was good friends with the then station historian. Unfortunately the station historian got posted before I could get my hands on copies of anymore "goodies". If there are any dates you are interested in let me know and I'll see if anything is mentioned. Regards von Shagmeister   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 02:57 PM (GMT) 11. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Thanks Andrew, Once again you excel yourself. What is your main area of research by the way? So I take it Hood and De Puysseleyr (French or Dutch nationality perhaps?) were on that same sortie F/31. Any idea of Take off time from Wick? The time of Hood`s crash-landing on Fair Isle was 14.05 hrs so it must have been mid morning sometime. Regards. Dave.   Top

Rene Romainville (Guest) (515 posts) 22-Aug-05, 03:06 PM (GMT) 12. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hello Dave, De Puysseleer was a Belgian pilot. Best regards René   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 03:34 PM (GMT) 13. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" LAST EDITED ON 22-Aug-05 AT 03:38 PM (GMT) Thanks Rene, Do you know anything about him? Have a Christian name for him perhaps? I noticed you spell his Surname different from Andrew, which is correct De Puysseleyer or De Puysseleer? Regards. Dave.   Top

Rene Romainville (Guest) (515 posts) 22-Aug-05, 03:42 PM (GMT) 14. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hello dave, If you can contact me at : rene.romainville(at)skynet.be I will provide you with some info about him and some other belgians who served with 541 Sqn. Best regards René   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 03:45 PM (GMT) 15. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Will Do, Thanks Rene.   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 10:12 PM (GMT) 21. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hi René, Is it possible I could also have details of the Belgian pilots who flew with 1 PRU/541 Sqn? Let me know and if so I'll send you an e-mail. Regards von Shagmeister   Top

Rene Romainville (Guest) (515 posts) 23-Aug-05, 07:38 AM (GMT) 22. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hello, No problems if you can send me an email at : rene.romainville(at)skynet.be I will look in the papers that I have If interested I also have details on F/Lt Whaley Sqn Best regards René   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 09:08 PM (GMT) 17. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" LAST EDITED ON 22-Aug-05 AT 09:42 PM (GMT) LAST EDITED ON 22-Aug-05 AT 09:39 PM (GMT) Hi Dave, Got the following of De Puysseleyr Joesph F.V.R. De Puysseleyr 350 (Belgian) Sqn 14/11/41-3/12/41, 1 PRU (as of 27/4/42)-19/10/42, 541 Sqn presumably 19/10/42-(as of 2/3/43-29/5/43), 541 Sqn ?-9/1/45, KIFA 9/1/45 as a F/L CdG 16/4/43, DFC 15/9/43 Anymore more info on De Puysseleyr would be much appreciated. Best Regards von Shagmeister   Top

Pierre Renier (Guest) (125 posts) 22-Aug-05, 05:51 PM (GMT) 16. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hi Dave Andrew's posting supports my posting for Copinsay (Msg.13) that Acott was on sortie F/32 on 27Apr'42. The fact that Cusson's is noted as having flown with Acott is in my view a bit of a red herring, and to me indicates he may have flown out to investigate any problems Acott was having. Almost without exception, all R.A.F. PR sorties were flown alone, to the extent that if they saw another a/c standing orders were to turn away even if might be a friendly. In my experience exceptions to this are the Tac.R. pilots of the 2 T.A.F. who on ocassion undertook joint flights but even these would be assigned two sortie refs. Having stated my opinion will now probably end up with egg on my face - flannel on standby! In summary for 27Apr'42 from Wick you have two operational sorties by Spitfires, being:- F/31 De Puysseleer F/32 Acott The sortie by Hood on 22Jul'41 would also have been on his own, and if accompanied by another pilot I believe would have been duly recorded. As mentioned in the postings I believe this might be sortie N/236, and maybe Andrew's sources can confirm this. For any of the PRU units the prefixes of the sortie codes e.g. F/xx can be used as a good indicator of which airfield the sorties were dispatched from. Kind regards Pierre   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 09:16 PM (GMT) 18. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" LAST EDITED ON 22-Aug-05 AT 09:17 PM (GMT) From what I have been able to find I would have to agree with Pierre that PR sorties were flown alone. The only entry for 22-Jul-41 in the diary is for F/L Hood as posted previously. No sortie reference is given. Cheers von Shagmeister   Top

von_Shagmeister (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 09:26 PM (GMT) 19. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" Hi Dave, I'm interested in all aspects of the air war in World War II particulary pilots. I seem to have a particular interest in recce pilots, both Axis and Allied, maybe because the work they did was so important. Most people seem interested in the achievements of the fighter pilots and overlook the great work done by the recce men. Best Regards von Shagmeister   Top

Highgroundsman (0 posts) 22-Aug-05, 09:47 PM (GMT) 20. "RE: Message for Pierre Renier" LAST EDITED ON 22-Aug-05 AT 10:04 PM (GMT) For Pierre & Andrew (Alias Von Shagmeister) Thanks so much for all this valuble information, I had never done much on Photo-Recon aircraft & crews before so I learned a lot. The two Spitfires on Copinsay & Fair Isle are very much alike with regards to targets & eventual outcome, except that in Acott`s case he was fortunate enough to be nearer the mainland an got his camera & himself off this tiny Isle pronto, wheras Hood was not to leave the Isle for sometime,locals reckon this was when the salvage team came over to dismantle the Spit. You are both welcome to copies of the 1180s I have along with my additional info I got from a researcher on Fair Isle. Just e-mail me. I agree with Andrew, these men of PR deserve much, much more by way of recognition, looking over Ross`s `Coastal Command Losses - Vol 1` there were so many. Keep up the good work guys! Thanks again. Dave.   Top

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