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| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Hi
I’m new to this forum and would appreciate any information members can supply about my mother’s cousin, F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil NZ411226, as I’m trying to write up his war history for my mother.
He was the bomb aimer on Lancaster W4247 (DX-X of 57 Sqdn) that failed to return from a raid on Hamburg on 9/10 November 1942.
A friend has kindly looked up Boiten volume 1 and informed me that W4247 was one of four of the 15 bombers lost that night for which a particular pilot was credited with a ‘kill’. Noting, however, that this was ‘probably’ his Lancaster , it says this was shot down by Leutnant Hans Caspers of 1st Staffel Nachtjagdgeschwader 3. This was Caspers’ first ‘kill.’
I haven’t seen the entry myself. There was some confusion over where W4247 crashed and where my relative was buried. Early reports via the Red Cross and later British military reports based on captured German documents, stated that he was buried first at Luneburg civilian cemetery before being re-interred at the British military cemetery at Ohlsdorf in Hamburg (now looked after by the CWGC: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2200711).
Later British military reports said that he had been buried first at the Ohlsdorf civilian cemetery before being re-interred at the British military cemetery.
There was confusion over identification of crew from my relatives W4247 and two other aircraft that failed to return from the same raid: Wellington BJ711 and Lancaster W4180.
Questions I’d love help with:
Does anyone know anything more about Hans Caspers and what became of him?
Where was his squadron based at the time, and was it flying Bf 110?
Does anyone know where Wellington BJ711 and Lancaster W4180 crashed?
Is there any more info about the other members of the crew of W4247 (F/O ME Walsh, DFC; Sgt AJ Bartle; P/O WW Griffin; F/Sgt GE Andrews; F/Sgt JH Dwyer; Sgt RW Grellier)?
This wasn’t the first time Ron O’Neil had crashed. Earlier with 57 Sqdn his Wellington Z1618 crashed into the North Sea when returning from a raid on Bremen on 29/30 June 1942. Again my friend has consulted Boiten and advised me that a confirmed kill by Oberleutnant Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein may have been Z1618.
Lostbombers says that several crew were killed in this ditching, including Sgt R.O'Niell (sic). Unless there were two crew members with very similar names that’s an error. (Lostbombers also says that those killed were commemorated on the Runnymede memorial, but that lists two Sergeant R O’Niell/O’Neil, Flight Sergeant Richard O’Niell from the Royal Australian Air Force and Flight Sergeant Ronald O’Niell from the RAF Volunteer Reserve who died on 24 February 1945. It seems that Ron’s name from the crew list of the ditched Wellington has been listed on lostbombers.co.uk in error (www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=o%27neill&GScid=2139034&GRid=15260451&).
So, some questions again:
Am I right in thinking that when the ace prin ....Read More. | andrewm on 26th September 2009 04:19:10 |
| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Andrew,
You probably have most of this information already, but in case not:
From my trilogy 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1915-1942)':
Mon 9/Tue 10 Nov 1942
Bomber Command
Raid on Hamburg, Germany (by 213 aircraft - 16 lost)...
...57 Squadron, RAF (Scampton, Lincolnshire - 5 Group)
Lancaster I W4247/X - took off at 1800 captained by Plt Off M E Walsh, DFC*, RAF, on same raid as the above, and brought down over Germany, crashing near Lüneburg, about 45km SE of Hamburg. All seven crew were buried at Lüneburg, but later reinterred at Ohlsdorf, near Hamburg. They share a collective grave with three crew members, including Flt Sgt I Kennedy, RNZAF, of a 142 Sqn Wellington (BJ711) also lost this night (see above).
Air Bomber: NZ411226 Flt Sgt Ronald O’NEIL, RNZAF - Age 20. 323hrs. 15th op.
[O'Neil was one of 9 New Zealanders who were killed on this particular raid]
And Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices)
O'NEIL, Flight Sergeant Ronald.
NZ411226; b Wgtn 10 Jan 22; Hutt Valley HS; clerk - Land & Income Tax Dept, Wgtn. RNZAF Levin/ITW as Air Observer u/t 16 Feb 41, emb for Canada 29 Apr 41, att RCAF 14 May 41, 6AOS 17 May 41, 5BGS 3 Aug 41, Air Observers Badge & Sgt & 1ANS 15 Sep 41, 1 Y Depôt 20 Oct 41, att RAF & emb for UK 23 Oct 41, 3PRC 4 Nov 41, 23OTU (Wellington) 16 Dec 41, 57 Sqn (Wellington - 13 ops inc 1 ASR) 2 May 42, ditched rtg from Bremen op 29/30 Jun 42 [rescued after 37 hrs in dinghy], Scampton 1 Jul 42 [hosp 1-30 Jul], 57 Sqn (Lancaster - 2 ops) 28 Oct 42, kao 9 Nov 42. Hamburg Cemetery - 8A.C. coll. grave 1-15, Ohlsdorf, Germany. Son of William & Hilda O'Neil, Lower Hutt. [phot. TWN 29.7.42 & 10.2.43].
[Of the 42 on his course who sailed from Auckland for Vancouver, Canada on 29 Apr 41 on the 'Awatea', 21 died and 21 survived (of whom three became PoW).]
Errol ....Read More. | Errol Martyn on 26th September 2009 11:16:16 |
| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Hi folks
Thank you very much for such prompt and helpful replies to my fairly exhaustive questioning! There are some really useful bits of the jigsaw puzzle here.
I have Ron O’Neil’s personnel file from NZDF archives and there’s correspondence from 1943 to 1950 relating to the location of the body and the graves, including between the MR&ES and the air ministry in London. The confusion is not over why he was later re-interred, but in which cemetery he was initially buried, and knowing the latter might help unravel what happened to his plane.
At first it was reported via the Red Cross that he had been buried at Luneburg cemetery.
Then it was reported that he was buried with the crew of W4180. Further investigation confirmed that the crew of W4180, that had crashed at Buchholz, were buried at Luneburg but the report of Ron O’Neil being with them might be erroneous.
Later correspondence reported that captured German documents indicate that Ron O’Neil was buried at Luneburg on 13/11/42, but the same letter says that O’Neils’ aircraft crashed “in the same area as Wellington BJ711”, some of the crew of which were buried in Ohlsdorfer-Friedhof. That’s why I’m interested in where BJ711 crashed; again, if BJ711 crew were buried closer to the centre of Hamburg (and, as Errol has helpfully pointed out, one of that crew was later buried in the collective grave with the W4247 crew), why Ron O’Neil would have been moved to Luneburg for burial.
The final graves registration report form of July 1949 says that the original burial place for all the W4247 crew was the Ohlsdorf civilian cemetery and the re-interment was the Ohlsdorf British military cemetery (a collective registration with 11 members of 2 other crews, but the references given are missing person files rather than to aircraft).
So I see I’ve answered my own question about where W4180 crashed, but if anyone knows where BJ711 crashed that would be useful.
Thanks again for the information. I really appreciate finding out things like the details of the crew of the ditched Wellington, what ship Ron sailed to Canada on, and his total number of flying hours.
Andrew ....Read More. | andrewm on 27th September 2009 12:59:44 |
| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Andrew,
"but if anyone knows where BJ711 crashed that would be useful."
Papers relating to this appear to have been weeded from Kennedy's RNZAF service record. Perhaps a copy still survives on the RCAF service record for the pilot, W T Bent, DFM, RCAF?
Errol ....Read More. | Errol Martyn on 27th September 2009 02:39:49 |
| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Hi,
Germany is not my normal research area, but I will give it a try.
If you take a look in the index files of the German Luftgaukommando, you will find this:
9 Nov 42 2010 On magneto: N 704778 A 7 A 58133 Sachsenwald near Friedrichsruh (Hamburg) 109552/62
9 Nov 42 2015 Vickers Wellington Hamburg-Ohlsdorf 109538/47
9 Nov 42 2130 Vickers Wellington III Lehmder Moor, 8 km north of Rastede/0 10964
Lehmdermoor
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2520966&fid=2040&c=germany
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2520966&fid=2040&c=germany#MAP
A look in BCL 1942 by Chorley, page 259, you will find Wellington III BK557 from 425 Sqn here:
Bad Zwischenahn
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2440423&fid=2134&c=germany
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2440423&fid=2134&c=germany#MAP
Sachsenwald
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2561551&fid=2023&c=germany
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2561551&fid=2023&c=germany#MAP
Buchholtz
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2452378&fid=2096&c=germany
http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2452378&fid=2096&c=germany#MAP
Ohlsdorf
http://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2544873&fid=2067&c=germany
http://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2544873&fid=2067&c=germany#MAP
--------------
Wellington III BJ711 142 Sqn - Crashed? Crew final rest Hamburg Cemetery, Ohlsdorf.
Wellington III X3310 150 Sqn - Crashed? Crew final rest Jonkerbos War Cemetery, Nijmegen.
Wellington III Z1679 420 Sqn - Lost in the sea off Pellworm, Sgt Collard was first buried there, final rest Hamburg Cemetery, Ohlsdorf. Rest of crew lost without trace.
Wellington III BJ764 425 Sqn - Crashed in U.K.
Wellington III BK557 425 Sqn - Crashed at Bad Zwischenahn. Those who died first buried Bad Zwischenahn Evangelical Parish Cemetery, final rest Sage War Cemetery.
Lancaster I W4180 44 Sqn - Crashed at Buchholtz, 16 km SSW of Hamburg on the S bank of the Elbe. Crew final rest Hamburg Cemetery, Ohlsdorf.
Source: BCL 1942
Best regards
Finn Buch ....Read More. | Argus on 16th April 2011 09:20:48 |
| F/Sgt Ronald O’Neil: two crashes in 1942 | Hello,
Wellington BJ711 142 Sqn crashed at Hamburg-Ohlsdorf, Wilhelm Raabe Weg.
1.+3./162, 3.+4./s.613, 1./Luftspeer-Abt. 201
Source: Luftgau LGK XI
Bundesarchiv
91. Polizeirevier Hamburg
Dietz ....Read More. | Dietz on 17th November 2018 05:25:34 |
