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RCAF POW DetailsKen, If you contact her again could you ask if his logbook is still in existence please? Whilst it is unlikely that there will be any reference to his last sortie in AB131 (unless added after his repatriation), it should contain details as to whether Spitfires were being used for PAMPA sorties after June 1942 (which would confirm or refute 'Even the birds were walking'). If he had flown PAMPA sorties previously it brings into question the F1180 remark that this was a Practise PAMPA. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 28th December 2007 11:23:57
269 Sqn Loss 23/7/40 P/O ApplebyDave, I'm afraid Cummings is in error with this one, but it's not his fault, rather the F1180. This does indeed give the loss as occurring at 62N 01W, but there seems to have been a mix-up. The aircraft was on a routine BISMUTH sortie (a triangular track westwards from Aldergrove) when it was lost. The last contact with the aircraft was made at 0919 hours when the aircraft was at 55.3N 12W (consistent with the BISMUTH track); it reported it was returning to Aldergrove with instrument problems. Nothing was ever heard or seen of the aircraft again. It is perhaps worth noting that Bisgood was not piloting the aircraft, but was on board as the Training Captain. The 202 Sqn ORB details an extensive sea and air search in deteriorating conditions over both northwest Ireland and the track WNW from Aldergrove - not north towards the Shetlands. Whilst with 1403 Met Flight earlier in his career, Bisgood had piloted the very first operational met reconnaissance from Bircham Newton (14.4.1941). In April 1941 he was returning to base from a met sortie when he came across three Ju88s; these he stalked and destroyed one before returning to base - he was awarded the DFC for this action. His citation read: “This officer has carried out a large number of meteorological flights, often involving flying in extremely unfavourable weather conditions. One day, while carrying out one of these missions, he observed three enemy bombers. Flight Lieutenant Bisgood, decided to attack and, skilfully using cloud cover, effected a surprise attack on one of the Junkers. Following a long burst from Flight Lieutenant Bisgood’s guns, the enemy bomber caught fire and plunged into the sea. Previously, Flight Lieutenant Bisgood had destroyed three hostile aircraft whilst flying with a Hurricane squadron. He has at all times shown a high devotion to duty, and by his skill and determination he has obtained the required meteorological data on many occasions when otherwise it would not have been obtained.” This has been discussed previously on the old RAFC, but I do not have the thread. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 10th January 2008 09:23:32
Gladiator loss, 1st March 1940Hi Alex, It may be worth just asking Hendon if they have any F1180s for these two aircraft for the 1/3/40. At least if they don`t you can eliminate them from your search. Regards. Dave ....Read More.highgroundsman on 4th February 2008 02:53:28
Gladiator loss, 1st March 1940Alex The Filton ORB (which mentions this incident even though it happened at Hornchurch) cites N5368 (sic) and the F1180 cites the a/c involved as N5638. Although believed at the time to be a write-off it seems that it was repaired as it has a subsequent history with the FAA. As you've noted 5588 and 5690 collided on 29/03, killing both pilots. HTH Niall ....Read More.NiallC on 4th February 2008 07:14:37
Gladiator loss, 1st March 1940Hi, Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. I'll order up some aircraft movement cards and F1180's for the three Glads N5588, N5638 and N5690 and see what I can piece together. Alex ....Read More.Alex Crawford on 4th February 2008 01:56:51
Gladiator loss, 1st March 1940[QUOTE=Alex Crawford;4101]Hi, Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. I'll order up some aircraft movement cards and F1180's for the three Glads N5588, N5638 and N5690 and see what I can piece together. Alex[/QUOTE] FAA Aircraft 1939 to 1945 records N5638 as: To 8.MU 22.7.42; Crail 2.10.42-4.44; PD (papers depositied) 18.10.45 ....Read More.paulmcmillan on 4th February 2008 03:32:04
Baled Out Three Times?The crash card F1180 would give you at lest the pilots name and serial number. There are nice F765 forms with all the crew names and serials but in my recent experience only a family member will be given access to these and even at that, they RAF AHB typed out the report and didn't transfer the other crew members serial numbers and sent this to the mans son. Might be my experience only. Not sure if you ran tha names through the London gazette but here are some possibles: Gazette Issue 36314 published on the 31 December 1943. Page 2 of 8 742479 Robert Harvey PEARMAN (162512). 4th Nov. 1943. Gazette Issue 35804 published on the 27 November 1942. Page 2 of 8 581540' Stanley Robert STREETER, D.F.M. (50119). -25th Sept. 1942. I haven't found his DFM award which might give a Squadron. Dennis ....Read More.dennis_burke on 6th February 2008 05:34:04
Whirlwind incidents April 1942Alex Your three accidents: On the 1st: Philip Harvey in P7112 overturned on landing in strong, gusting crosswind. Pilot suffered minor bruising. Aircaft Cat E. Joe Holmes in P7000 touched ground with a wingtip while landing. Aircraft repaired on site and returned to unit. On the 2nd: P7041 suffered low hydraulic pressure during prolonged taxying at low engine revs and with ineffective brakes taxied into an obstruction. Aircraft returned to Westland CRO at Ilchester but was found to be beyond repair. As usual with things Whirlwind, nothing about this last incident is entirely straightforward. ORB records the pilot as Doug Small and the obstruction as a bowser. F1180 records the pilot as Bas Abrams and the obstruction as dispersal bay. HTH Niall ....Read More.NiallC on 12th February 2008 06:38:27
Pilot detailsAlex This is only a partial answer as I only have a fraction of my files on this laptop, so may have more when I get back to the UK: Robert Beaumont: Can't help with a precise date of arrival, but he flew his first Whirlwind solo on 30/03/43 as a Sgt Pilot. I'd have expected his arrival on the squadron to have been no more than a month before that. Lawson. The ORB indeed records the arrival of a Sgt C Lawson on 19/02/41. However the F1180 for an incident to P6991 on 23/3/41 gives what I read as Sgt GL Lawton (925311) as the pilot. The handwriting is lousy and F1180s are by no means immune to error. In my view the only real candidate for this man is 920311 Graham Lewis Lawson. (Not to be confused with JC Lawton who served briefly with the squadron Sept-Oct '41 when it was acting as a sort of OTU for 137 Sqn) Lee-White: In from 59OTU 13/10/42. Temporarily posted out to HQ Fighter Command Feb 43 to act as liaison officer at Goxhill with USAAC (One of whose P47s he managed to crash). Posted out of 263, tour expired, 29/06/43 to AFDU. Don Lintern: Are you sure about 25/01/41 for his date posted in? 263 ORB has: 11/03/41: PO DW Lintern in from 55(?) OTU 06/04/41 PO Lintern and Sgt Sainsbury ordered to report at Uxbridge by 1800 hrs, Non Possunt. 26/04/41: PO Lintern posted to 504 (?) There should be more on this man in "Hurricanes over Malta" and "Malta: The Hurricane Years". Lilleystone: I have him joining the squadron from 1 TEU in late October '43 (along with Gerry Racine) MacFadgen: ORB records: Sgt Pilot RA McFadgen (RCAF) posted in from 51 OTU 28/12/41 and SgtPilot MacFadgen posted out to No 1 RAF Depot Uxbridge 10/05/42. My own view is that this is actually Robert John McFadden (J.7551) Jack Maddocks: In from 56 OTU 1/7/41, out to 137 8/10/41 Hope this helps Niall ....Read More.NiallC on 3rd March 2008 06:03:29
Halifax Ditching 202 Sq? Off Western IslesPaul, Cummings' position for the loss of ST 807 is in error, although in fairness it should be pointed out that the F1180 from which he obviously took some of his information, is also in error. On 18 April 1947 Halifax ST807 was tasked for a routine Bismuth sortie into the Atlantic west of Ireland. (A ‘Bismuth’ was a meteorological reconnaissance flight along a triangular track. The first leg was flown at 1800 feet above sea level, but dropping to 50 feet every 200 nautical miles (nm) to make a special observation. At the end of the first leg (700 nm from base) the aircraft would make a steep climb to 18000 feet, during which temperatures and weather details would be recorded at standard levels. At the end of the second leg, which was flown at 18000 feet, a steep descent was made to sea level, again recording data at regular intervals. The final leg, the return to base, was completed in the same way as the outward leg.) ST807 took off at about 0730 GMT, but a signal transmitted at 0818 GMT advised it was returning to Aldergrove, as the LORAN was unserviceable. The signal gave the aircraft’s position as 55.13’N 12.00 W. Nothing more was heard and the aircraft was posted as missing at 0948 GMT. A search was initiated immediately, the first aircraft taking off at 1032 GMT. Nothing was found that day, but on the 19th, at 1222 GMT, a Lancaster of 224 Squadron obtained a radar contact at 55.38’N 09.52’W, unfortunately contact was lost before a visual sighting could be made. During the afternoon a 202 Squadron Halifax made a brief sighting of what was thought to be a dinghy near 55.28’N 09.41’W, but could not keep this in sight due to the extremely rough conditions. The search continued to be hampered by stormy weather through the 20th and, after a final sortie on 21st the search was abandoned. The search operation had been considerable, some 19 aircraft taking part on the 19th as well as two Navy vessels. Most of the above comes from the 202 Sqn ORB, but the accident was reported in the Times, and on each occasion the position was given as west of Ireland. I've posted this correction to Cummings previously, but it must have been over a year ago as I'm unable to find it using the archive search facility. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 13th March 2008 07:32:37
P/O B D Gnanamuthu RIAFThank you Amrit - I hoped I could rely on you. I'd posted the query as three of us have been discussing the loss of Spitfire P9550 (1401 Met Flight) off-board. As I think has been discussed previously, this aircraft was posted as 'Missing' on the very first PAMPA sortie on 7 Nov 1941, in fact, it was because of this loss that Mosquitoes (because they carried a navigator) subsequently replaced the Spitfires for these sorties. The Luftwaffe claimed just three aircraft this day, two Whirlwinds and a Spitfire, but I think it unlikely the Spitfire was the 1401 Met Flight aircraft as it was destroyed over land. We reviewed all the airmen posted by the CWGC as being lost this day, but could find only one on the Runnymede Memorial for whom a unit was not given - Gnanamuthu. If he was piloting a Hurricane that takes him out of the frame as being the pilot of P9550 straight away. All of which increasingly leads me to think the pilot survived the incident as a POW; consequently I've asked for the F1180 as that should resolve the matter. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 6th April 2008 12:43:10
Commings and ST807 of 202 SqnOn both the old RAF Commands and this new forum I've advised, at various times, that Cummings' 'Final Landings' is in error in giving the position for the loss of ST807 as 62N 01W. Whilst looking through the 202 Sqn ORB (AIR27/2457) at Kew today, I came across a signal dated 6 May 1948 referring to a sighting on 2nd May: "Undercarriage and part of wing found in sea at position 62N 01W, the markings on parts are C/S (or 5) 215314. Also number 4 in black circle. D on wheel. Aldergrove Crumlin Northern Ireland 9004. Any aircraft missing. Further details tomorrow" Unfortunately there were no further details. Thus we are left with the mystery of how this position for the wreckage of an unknown aircraft in May 1948 came to be on the F1180 of ST807 lost in April the previous year. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 8th April 2008 12:33:47
Spitfire P9550 - 1401 Met FlightI've received a reply from the RAF Museum in response to my request for athe F1180 for P9550, and unfortunately there does not appear to be one. Which means we are no further forward. The lack of any unaccountable name on the CWGC still suggests to me that the pilot survived. Mmmmm... Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 8th May 2008 08:07:23
Crashes off the Scilly IslesRob, From my point of view you've been extremely helpful as my particular interest is in Henderson. He was a forecaster and I believe was en route to Malta, having been commissioned just 8 days previously, on 11 December. I'm collaborating with Peter (Resmorah) in writing a book of remembrance to sit alongside a new Met Office Roll of Honour which is being dedicated at HQ Met Office in Exeter, on 6 June, and every scrap of information is extremely useful. My reason for placing the loss of K7011 as far west as 8-10W is that I assumed (always fatal in this game) that a relatively slow, unarmed, transport aircraft would take a track as far from the French coast as possible. Unfortunately neither the ORB or F1180 give any clue as to the planned route. Perhaps a forumite might have some knowledge of the tracks flown by transport aircraft from the UK to Gibraltar. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 19th May 2008 06:02:24
Sgt J.F Vezina R/62799Hoping someone can clarify the following, on December 16/17th 1941 Sgt J.F Vezina crash landed his No.218 (B) Squadron Wellington on return from Brest. The F1180 accident card records this Canadian NCO pilot as R/62799. On checking "They Shall Grow Not Old " F/Sgt J.F.P Vezina R/62799 is recorded as a airgunner killed with No.419 RCAF Squadron February 12th 1942. ? Vezina of 218 squadron had completed 18 op's prior to his crash landing, after this crash he is not mentioned again, sadly there is "no posting out" details in 218 Squadrons ORB for this period. Can anyone please confirm that this is the same man. ? TIA Steve ....Read More.Steve Smith on 26th May 2008 03:59:46
Crew positions Handley Page HarrowPeter, K7011 had two pilots in the transport role (at least it did on this flight (F1180)), plus three other crew members; positions unknown but at least a navigator and WOp. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 18th July 2008 03:19:56
Crash of Wellington III -DF626 - 420 Sqn RCAF - 29 Jan 43Greetings, I am currently researching the loss of Wellington III - Code PT-Y Serial DF626 of 420 Sqn RCAF near Woodbury Common in Devon on the night of 29 January 1943.The crash sadly took the lives of the following crew: Pilot - Sgt Delmer Ray Sanderson Navigator - FS Charles Murray Downton Observer - FS Harold Hogarth Sealy Air Gunner - FS John Drake Bittner Two crew survived, Sgt P Beauchamp and Sgt Hank Ernst, I have recentley seen the BEM (Military) awarded to Marine Sgt Walter West, awarded for his efforts in rescuing these crewman from the wreckage. I have included a link to Hank Ernst return to the site in 2005 accompanied by a film crew from Canada. (Page 5.) I believe that the aircraft was on its return from Lorient when it crashed, and released its bomb load just before. Was there a reason why it didnt complete its mission over France? Was there a technical problem? Would anyone have any insight to the loss or supporting documentation I could look for? I have been directed, by Peter Clare, to the RAF Museum for the F1180. Any insight to the mission and the aircraft would be appreciated. ....Read More.aeroplanegripper on 25th July 2008 09:13:02
Accident Reports & Courts of EnquiryThe Department of Research & Information Services (DoRIS) archive at Hendon should have AM Form 1180 for the crashes on their micro film holdings. I have in the past requested prints from their website: Give them all the information you can. I stand to be corrected here but the courts of enquiry records are not so easily available, I think it has been determined that the Air Historical Branch hold them but they release them only to next of kin etc. In the past 12 months I have seen where the son of an airman was sent a redacted copy of the Form 765 "Report on Flying Accident or Forced landing not attributable to enemy action" but it had been typed out anew on say MS Word and the airmens serial numbers (including his fathers) had been removed along with their injuries and flying hours. There may then have been Form 412 'Procedings of Court of Enquiry or investigation. I have gotten these in the service files of RCAF men from during the war. The F765 and F412 may not be prewar reports, or may be in a different format. Mmy limited knowledge extends to wartime only. Definatly contact Hendon for the F1180. Dennis ....Read More.dennis_burke on 10th August 2008 10:29:10
Beaufort Dd990 PilotHave you the F1180 from Hendon? Dennis ....Read More.dennis_burke on 16th August 2008 03:34:03
Lancaster I PD259 JO-P 463 SquadronLinzee The aircraft accident card (F1180) for PD259 confirms the crash location as stated. On site (or at least in 1975!) there was a cowling panel stencilled 'PORT PD264' and an intake with (stencilled in yellow) '.4656 S', which could be W4656, one of a cancelled batch of Lancaster Mk.Is. There are crew photos in David Earl's 'Hell on High Ground Vol 2' (Airlife, 1999). I had not previously heard about W/O Middleton being alive when found. He was from 83 Sqn attached to 463 Sqn. Keith ....Read More.Keith Bryers on 12th September 2008 05:28:31
Spitfire 66 Squadron 10/12/1944Hello Luc I have been to RAF Hendon today. I have the AM Form 1180 for this incident. It states that W/O Brysdon 1343649 was the pilot of Spitfire XVI RK866. Crashed while landing at B.60 - Out of Fuel. Let me have your email and I will scan and send the F1180 to you. Regards Andy ....Read More.Andy Ingham on 8th October 2008 05:07:01
Sunderland W3997 of 201 squadron - Crash?633399 AC2 J Marshall RAFVR was a cook and 1118932 AC1 W Ritchie RAFVR was a Main Battle Cook. F1180 Accident Card gives location as 4 mls N of Portsoy, 'Cause obscure'. 4(C)OTU ORB says 17 mls E of Lossiemouth and 19 OTU Kinloss ORB says 345degrees (T) 4 mls Buckie. Keith ....Read More.Keith Bryers on 16th October 2008 05:01:07
C of I?Just received a F1180 for a Halifax training accident and I'm trying to work what 'C of I' means. The pilot is credited with 901 (I think) total hours solo and 25 on type; then underneath that is C of I, 743 total hours solo and 26 on type. Would appreciate some advice. Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 29th October 2008 05:42:32
Another one for the Met teamDave, Can you give some times please? There are a couple of possible scenarios, but without times I can't request the necessary chart from the Met Office. Also where was 20 OTU? 'Snow storm' is a generalistic term that means very little on its own. One man might use the term to describe persistent and widespread frontal snow with low cloud, high winds and poor visibility, whilst another might use it to describe a passing snow shower which causes a brief, but nonetheless dangerous, loss of visibility. In the former case I would imagine it unlikely an OTU aircraft would be despatched on a training sortie, but in the latter there shouldn't really be any problem. From the very basic data available I suspect it was the latter situation, but it will take a few days to get the relevant chart. Does the F1180 give any clue? Brian ....Read More.Lyffe on 25th January 2009 04:22:50
Gladiators of 263 SquadronHi Dave Yes the info is a direct quote from the ORB for RAF Filton (AIR 28/282). The Form 78s simply record that the aircraft were transferred to 43 Group as Cat E on 5/4/40 and give a reference number, but no detail as to cause. I haven't yet seen the F1180s for this incident - which might at least help to identify who was in which aircraft. Niall ....Read More.NiallC on 26th January 2009 05:20:51

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