|Duty 'bp' or 'Gp' on a Flying Accident Card||Thank you for replying Ross
14/15th August 1940. I have the No. 4 Group ORB described as 'Form 540' from AIR 25/93 photocopied and it refers to B.193.
Three Squadrons were operating from No.4 Group and I have several B193s (both in different layout format) from two of the Station records. The relevant teleprinted 77 Squadron Driffield form has lettering down the left hand side.
I will scrutinise the B193s photocopies I have again, or will there be another / Master B193 elsewhere?
The No.4 Group Appendices for the particular P5044 aircraft are missing. Although the other Whitley P4982 crew casualty does have a teleprinted signal (but no 'bp' or 'Gp' on their AM1180 though). There are no Intelligence records for either aircraft as the crews died, but the Raid Form does confirm that both Whitleys had been in contact by wireless that their mission had been successfully carried out.
The funerals of the No.1 OTU Hudson T9320 and Whitley P5044 were paid for by Three RAF Stations, RAF Silloth, RAF Driffield and RAF Boscombe Down. The letter we managed to get later in 1940 said that they were involved in a most important operation over occupied territory, (which I suppose is standard RAF speak). One of the P5044 crew went to the cemetery as unidentified and the RAF at Eastleigh recorded the Whitley with "5 or 6 crew".
The Forms E don't help either.
Some aircraft (No.2 Group) were visiting places named (listed as aerodromes in Forms E) in RCM files where the GAF were known to transmit their navigation signals from and an attack was planned on Liverpool that night according to 'Wireless experts' at Fighter Command, but the attack on Liverpool did not materialise.
Regards Mark ....Read More.||Mark Hood on 17th January 2012 02:44:34|
|Duty 'bp' or 'Gp' on a Flying Accident Card||The link you gave me for the B Form takes me to a post titled Operational Report Form D.
Form D is missing for P5044 in the RAF Station Driffield Appendices, of the Forms D being sent to No.4 Group by Teleprinter.
However, Forms D for the other 77 Squadron crews who returned do all seem to be there and Line C is the MSI (Movement Serial Indicator) of the aircraft which is DM for Driffield followed by 3 numbers and they used the set of numbers, which followed on from the numbers last used by the Squadron on their last Op.
The letters on the Flying Accident Card appear to be "Gp" (although the 2 letters could be a small 'b' followed by a 'p'). They are definitely in the Duty box. I have cut part of the card out in paint, but I don't know how to post the extract.
In AIR 24/220 there is another Signal from HQBC to 2,3,4 & 5 Groups for 14/8 giving numerous Targets (all with either their letter and number/s, or 5 letters only such as 'ADIEU' and 'SIMOR' and also one for the Bismarck).
According to the P5044 Loss Card the target is Oil Refinery at Ambes, which was apparently Z158.
The Form B193 is their last Teleprinted Order from 4 Group to RAF Driffield which says "All Aircraft" "Primary Z158", with Secondary and Last Resort targets as ADIEU (peferably Z175). This B193 is in addition to another Operational Order which lists each aircraft by letter and their MSI number, bomb load, route which I have also got a copy of.
Regarding Bomber Command Loss Cards, I wrote and asked why P4982 did not have a Loss Card and the RAF Museum replied that Loss Cards were only completed when 'enemy action' was involved, which is what locals were led to believe too, despite knowing the Whitley had hit a balloon cable.
However, the No.4 Group ORB only has a reference to friendly fire, but no damage. The intercom and mechanical failure relate to other aircraft according to Squadron ORBs.
Some AA Units War Diary or Appendices are missing for the IOW, Portsmouth, Gosport, Southampton and Eastleigh areas according to the August 1940 area AA Brigade Layout and none of the remainder even mention any aircraft flying over.
There was one Blenheim up from Tangmere (logged by the Observer Corps Centre) about an hour beforehand and the FIU generally states that IFF Tests and practice interceptions were being made on 14 & 15th August 1940.
Unfortunately, I don't have any other Flying Accident Cards photocopied with the letter combination in the 'Duty' box.
Mark ....Read More.||Mark Hood on 17th January 2012 06:20:54|
|Duty 'bp' or 'Gp' on a Flying Accident Card||Hello Ross
I have the 12 Squadron 1st August and No.10 OTU Friendly Fire 5th August 1940 Accident Cards Copies and the full Court of Inquiry paper work photocopied, along with various Bomber Command correspondence.
Regarding the 12 Squadron Battle L5568, our Fighter Pilots in August 1940 had authority to shoot down any aircraft which failed to conform to S.D.158 by not flying at a set agreed height, or who had navigation lights on above 2,000 feet and more than 5 miles from their base. I also have an Air Consolidation Order amended in 1938 and still in force in 1941, which indemnified our Fighter Pilots from blame. The 29 Squadron Blenheim Pilot said he indentified the Battle as a GAF aircraft to which the President quizzed, did you not see it was a British type? The Controller could not confirm identity, so the fighter challenged the Battle, opened fired and the identification signals were seen from the Battle as the bomber fell away toward Anderby Creek. I think it was unfair to blame the Battle Pilot for the loss of his Battle aircraft and crew and Bomber Command argued against blaming their Pilot, on the basis:-
that there should be better liaison between Sector and Bomber Stations.
that the Controller did not know the recently new Bomber Station was there.
that Groups should filter all movements of bombers instead of Fighter Command.
that there should be closer liaison between Commands.
that the Battle was not plotted on Digby Ops Room Table.
It was a pretty poor show all round and trying to blame the poor Battle Pilot who lost his life!
However, the 10 OTU Pilot and crew survived and the Pilots were furious when he force landed at Squires Gate with a damaged Whitley and I noticed that the Air Ministry referred in the Court of Inquiry to a Signal of late July 1940 sent to Coastal Command stating that it was better for an enemy aircraft to escape, than to shoot down one of our own.
The chap at RAF Silloth said see that Whitley go and shoot it down. Apparently the GAF were flying a Whitley. Hurricane pilots from Silloth made paractice challenges across the Whitley, the Whitley fired its identification and the Hurricanes disappeared. Later the Whitley Pilot was being challenged again by the fighters from Silloth and they opened fired into the mainplane wing tanks and also causing the starboard pump to fail, without official Orders and without sufficient reason to believe that the Whitley was hostile, which had to crash land at Squires Gate. The Duty Officer also failed to give explicit orders and the Hurricane pilots had acted beyond their remit, be reprimanded and moved to another Unit.
By September 1940 the onus was placed on the intercepting Pilot to identify the other aircraft visually and not the Control Officer. I believe Bomber Command also got the RAF Fighter to Bomber Challenge arrangement stopped. But if a Fighter opened fire, the RAF bomber still needed to fire or show their identification signals. They were ....Read More.||Mark Hood on 18th January 2012 10:14:48|