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Whitley V P4986 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database] RAFCommands.com

 Whitley V P4986


Aircraft Accident / Loss Entry

Date of Crash  17 Aug 40 Aircraft Name  Whitley V Serial Number  P4986
Unit  51 Sqdn Operating Airfield   Country  Germany
Aircrew details
Details 
Source Henk Welting's Database

National Archives AIR81

Citation AIR81 Casualty File Description Link
AIR81/2614Flight Lieutenant J S Scott, Sergeant F A Beale, Sergeant R D E Clarke, Sergeant P D Salmon, Sergeant H Haggett: killed; shot down over Germany, Whitley P4986, 51 Squadron, 17 August 1940.C16471914

Casualities in the CWGC Register for Whitley V P4986

Rank Name, Number, Trade & Details DateUnit Country Cemetary/Memorial & Loc Ref
SergeantFrederick Allen BEALE (741185) Pilot Whitley V P4986  AIR81/2614 1940-08-1751 Sqdn AIR27 GermanyHanover War Cemetery
SergeantRoy Desmond Edward CLARKE (580869) Observer Whitley V P4986  AIR81/2614 1940-08-1751 Sqdn AIR27 GermanyHanover War Cemetery
SergeantHarry HAGGETT (626994) Wireless Op./Air Gunner Whitley V P4986  AIR81/2614 1940-08-1751 Sqdn AIR27 GermanyHanover War Cemetery
SergeantPeter Duncan SALMON (551589) Radio Operator (Air) Whitley V P4986  AIR81/2614 1940-08-1751 Sqdn AIR27 GermanyHanover War Cemetery
Flight LieutenantJohn Stanley SCOTT (37484) Pilot Whitley V P4986  AIR81/2614 1940-08-1751 Sqdn AIR27 GermanyHanover War Cemetery


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Related Posts in RAF Commands Forum

ThreadPost TextAuthor
Whitley P4986 Aug17,1940near my home town, direct east of ESSINGHAUSEN (Peine region) a british bomber was shot down by flak. Due to the photos I found at the town archive I could identify it as a Whitley. Due to the lostbomber-website the only one was within the range was the P4986 from 51.Sqn during a raid against Bohlen Oil Plant but it was stated that the cause and the crash site where not established... At a german newspaper article from that time it seems the Whitley burst immediatelly after being hit, no one of the crew survived - due to another photo it seems they didnīt had the chance to hook their chutes... Pilot-in-Command (?) Flight Lieutenant John Stanley Scott 37484 Grave 5G12 Hannover War Cemetery CoPilot (?) Sergeant Frederick Allen Beale 25J Clapham, Bedfordshire, UK 741185 Grave 5G9 Observer Sergeant Roy Desmond Edward Clarke 580869 Grave 5G11 Radio Operator Sergeant Peter Duncan Salmon 551589 Grave 5G8 Air Gunner Sergeant Harry Haggett, 19 J. Stafford , UK 626994 Grave 5G10 These informations where all I could get about the five, a guestbook-entry to the 51Sqn-website was without reply yet. If I could get more informations, maybe photos of this crew I because I think it is importand to give these things also a face... Thanks a lot for any help, Edgard ....Read More.edgard on 15th October 2008 11:36:28
Hampden L4078 26 June 1940 50 Sqn.Dear Errol, dear Henk, first of all I'd like to thank you for your kind help. In reference to the crash location I think that you are wrong. I have a photo of the crash-site, newspaper article, flak report. If you want I can sent copies to you. There is only one crash that happend at Duttenstedt: 17. August 1940 Whitley P4986. And finally the Luftgau states: 26-27 June 1940 Handley Page Hampden Rethen/Leine at road to Grasdorf 101747 (NARA) kind regards Steve ....Read More.Mosquito on 2nd November 2008 05:26:58
Hampden L4078 26 June 1940 50 Sqn.[QUOTE=Mosquito;17425]Dear Errol, dear Henk, first of all I'd like to thank you for your kind help. In reference to the crash location I think that you are wrong. I have a photo of the crash-site, newspaper article, flak report. If you want I can sent copies to you. There is only one crash that happend at Duttenstedt: 17. August 1940 Whitley P4986. And finally the Luftgau states: 26-27 June 1940 Handley Page Hampden Rethen/Leine at road to Grasdorf 101747 (NARA) kind regards Steve[/QUOTE] Steve, Thanks very much for emailing me those german documents (unable to read German unfortunately). What is the date of the newspaper report, incidentally? My amendment entry was based on the official Post Presumption Memorandum report of 1948, which clearly states "crashed 500 metres W. of Duttenstedt'." The British authorities may have got it wrong and confused the Whitley crash location you mention with that of the Hampden, though the document was based on Missing Research & Enquiry research post war long after the 1940 Flak report (and hand written note of 1944 on it - by whom?) and took into account all the information then known to both German and British authorities. If we could establish the first place of burial of the crew of the Whitley that might help clear up the confusion (it being unlikely that they were first buried at Hannover, given that Duttenstedt is about 25km east of Hannover?) Errol ....Read More.Errol Martyn on 2nd November 2008 04:31:24
Whitley P4986 Aug17,1940Callsign of Whitley P4986 was definitly MH-F; it is visible on some photos I got from the crashsite. There also was shown that the bomb load was at least partially 4.5-inch reconnaissance flares Mk4 as identified by German explosives experts. For this it shows that the crew was well experienced and in a pathfinder-role, I suppose. This could hit the newspaper article from the crash which stated that it was the second aircraft in the bomber group passing the area of Peine. I have contact tho the brother of rear gunner Sgt. Hagget, all other investigations about the crewmembers where negative. If anyone is interested in the results and photos I got or has additional information please contact me direkt: ed-fuss@t-online.de Regards, Edgard ....Read More.edgard on 29th October 2010 12:09:30
Hampden L4078 26 June 1940 50 Sqn.[QUOTE=Mosquito;17425]Dear Errol, dear Henk, first of all I'd like to thank you for your kind help. In reference to the crash location I think that you are wrong. I have a photo of the crash-site, newspaper article, flak report. If you want I can sent copies to you. There is only one crash that happend at Duttenstedt: 17. August 1940 Whitley P4986. And finally the Luftgau states: 26-27 June 1940 Handley Page Hampden Rethen/Leine at road to Grasdorf 101747 (NARA) kind regards Steve[/QUOTE] Steve, I would be very interested to see the information that you have on the crash of L4078. Walter Harding was one of the casulaties from my home town and I have done a fair amount of research on him, of which you can see here http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-air/36072-50-61-squadrons-r-f.html#post399864 I am in contact with his Neice who kingly provided on the photographs. Walters brother Donald also served in the RAF Phil ....Read More.Englandphil on 5th July 2011 04:38:19
Whitley P4986 Aug17,1940[QUOTE=edgard;55742]Callsign of Whitley P4986 was definitly MH-F; it is visible on some photos I got from the crashsite. There also was shown that the bomb load was at least partially 4.5-inch reconnaissance flares Mk4 as identified by German explosives experts. For this it shows that the crew was well experienced and in a pathfinder-role, I suppose. This could hit the newspaper article from the crash which stated that it was the second aircraft in the bomber group passing the area of Peine. [/QUOTE] Hello Edgard An August 1940 reference to 4.5" (4.5 inch) flares in an Air Ministry file sugests that they were probably on photographic work (either at target or/and elsewhere on route) and there is a reference to unsuitable Whitley racking of one of the flare sizes and also changing to another flare size. It is possible that the ignition of a flare inside the Whitley was a contributory factor to this loss, due to the fusing sensitivity to various forces (air explosion nearby), bullets and other phenomena. Thank you for bringing this German report to our attention. I have a Whitehall signal requesting the photographs of the Ambes target Bomber Command (BC) Ops 14/15 August 40, but BC were unable to supply photos [due to the Ambes Whitley crashing near West End village, Southampton]. Whitehall then had to make a request for a sortie (signal copied to C.C.) to go and photograph the Bordeaux damage. Mark ....Read More.Mark Hood on 20th December 2013 05:16:06


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