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paulmcmillan
12th November 2020, 09:29
All


The ATC Casualties has reminded me that CWGC will NOT record some deaths in WW2 timescale as the period as they are not recognised as Service War Deaths - I think they should be recorded somewhere and Jagan has agreed and maybe we will add them to the DB with a indicator if members think they should be included


So I think we should record them under this thread

I will start with

04/09/1939 Spitfire Prototype K5054 at RAE Farnborough. Pilot died 5th Sept 1939

Pilot was Flight Lieutenant Gilbert 'Spinner' Standridge White who has died on active service but is not on CWGC

The Spitfire Story" by Price
""But 'Spinner' White had suffered serious neck injuries and he died in hospital four days later (sic)."

Ancestry. says died on 5th Sept (day later) and the Probate Calendar agrees. so the "four days" later is wrong in book and he died of broken neck

Birth: 14/01/1899 (14 Jan 1899) London
Death: 05/09/1939 (5 Sep 1939) Aldershot Hampshire England

Deaths

Name: Gilbert Stanbridge White
Death Date: 5 Sep 1939
Death Place: Surrey, England
Probate Date: 21 Dec 1939
Probate Registry: London, England

See
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?12539-K5054-pilot-killed

CWGC neglected to add him when I questioned this as they said according to RAF he was not in Service even though on Casualty List :-(

The Times Casualty list reveals his service number as 19098 in Casualty Communique #4 from Air Ministry


#19098 Flight Lieutenant G.S. White


See

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/75481


I think we may need to Xref with Test Pilot Deaths and also maybe Ferry Command Civilian deaths

Thanks Paul

wwrsimon
12th November 2020, 11:14
Paul

Did you see the article in the Surrey Advertiser from September 16th 1939?

FUNERAL OF AIR CRASH VICTIM
Semi-military honours were accorded at Woking on Saturday, when the cremation took place of Flt.-Lt. Gilbert Stanbridge White, of Gilmais, Leatherhead-road, Great Bookham, who died in hospital on Tuesday of last week following an air crash, when he was testing a machine. A resident of Great Bookham for 12 years, he was proprietor of the Gilmais swimming pool and tennis courts, and very well known in the district. He was 40, and leaves a widow but no family.

Not sure what 'semi-military honours' involves?

paulmcmillan
12th November 2020, 12:20
I can't remember the details now and I can't find them in my mail - But I think he was RAFO or something - The RAF basically said 'No Not one of ours' and the CWGC said no - I could not believe it - I even showed them he was testing an RAF plane, had RAF Service Number, was in RAFO etc was after 3rd Sept "Semi Military' and on Air Ministry Casualty list how much more official can you get

Jagan
12th November 2020, 14:22
17.7.47: Cadet Raymond Alan Glass (19), gliding accident at 203 GS, Downhill the previous day

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?26475-ATC-casualties-WW2&p=154294#post154294


Civilian Raymond VOSS () of the Civilian Technical Corps
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=52676 (Added to our RAF CWGC DB - but is not in CWGC yet)

Circumstances of Death: (Not Recorded on CWGC ) On 2 June 1943 a welder was needed to work underneath the ramp of a landing craft in order to complete tasks considered extremely urgent due to the fact that the landing craft had to be ready in time for the convoy sailing from the Clyde to take part in the invasion of Sicily on 10 July 1943. Owing to a mechanical failure, the cause of which was never established, the ramp was suddenly released and struck Mr Voss, killing him instantly. He was awarded a posthumous commendation for gallantry by Sir Archibald Sinclair, the Secretary of State for Air.

Death of Death 1943-06-02

jonheyworth
12th November 2020, 15:29
Many may already be recorded as civilian deaths. I have submitted cadet glass to the CWGC via the IFTC projects among others including a few Rhodesian Air Askari

Jagan
12th November 2020, 15:34
Mosquito NS829 lost 1947-05-13
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=NS829



Sqn/Ldr SIMMONS, Peter Henry Anker - 39691 - DFC+Bar ex 107 Sqn
Mr. F.CLIFFORD,Radio Op of British Aviation Services both being killed.


Mosquito NS829 - The a/c was an ex 487 Sqn that was sold to Turkey. In Fairey Aircraft Ltd at Ringway, Manchester was on test for the Turkish Government. Killing both crew. According to one eye-witness, there was a flash, followed by a pall of black smoke. Fire engines were unable to get near"13.5.1947

Probably being counted as Civilian deaths? And as an aircraft already sold to Turkey - might be out of scope?

Jagan
12th November 2020, 16:01
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?26475-ATC-casualties-WW2&p=155882#post155882

William Nathaniel Powell. Born 3/6/1926. Parents were George & Alice Powell of Linwood Road, Higher Tranmere, Birkenhead.
A number of cadets from 1175 (Birkenhead) ATC Squadron arrived at RNAS Inskip on 11.8.45 for a week’s training. On Friday 17.8.44 Powell accompanied Sub/Lt (A) Francis H Davies RNVR of 816 Squadron on a local training flight. The aircraft was Firefly FR.1 MB688 /’G’ . The Firefly was one of a formation of four flying at 2,500 feet when it suddenly dropped out of formation and dived into a potato field at Brow Farm, Holmeswood, near Tarleton, Lancashire. The aircraft was buried deeply in the ground and both occupants were killed.

Sub Lt F H Davies is on CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2711561/FRANCIS%20HENRY%20DAVIES/

paulmcmillan
12th November 2020, 19:56
Mr. F.CLIFFORD,Radio Op of British Aviation Services both being killed.

Frank Clifford aged 23 buried Greenwich

paulmcmillan
18th May 2021, 11:45
Can I add

This this on the Test Pilot Memorial Page as

04/12/1940, Mr (ex Flight Lieutenant) John William (Jack) HATHORN, Gloster TP, Hawker Hurricane Mk I N2497

Infact his full and correct name is John William Hathorn

Gloucestershire Echo - Thursday 12 December 1940 Page 1

INQUEST TRIBUTE Verdict On Cheltenham Man " By his death the country has sustained a loss at a time when such men can ill be spared," commented the Gloucester City Coroner (Mr. E. H. Clifford), at the inquest held on Wednesday on John William Hathorn, aged 28, of The Cabin, Leckhampton Hall, Shurdington-road, Cheltenham. A verdict of "Accidental death ' was recorded, the Coroner expressing sympathy with the relatives.



Also

26006 Arthur Pakenham Fitzhardinge Murray 'Boy' BERKELEY S/Ldr
Squadron Leader Arthur Pakenham Fitzhardinge Murray BERKELEY ( 26006) is placed on the retired list on account
of ill-health. 18th Jan. 1940.

Birth 10 Aug 1907
Death 4 Aug 1941

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13390-Arthur-Pakenham-Fitzhardinge-Murray-BERKELEY


Killed in a flying accident at Kings Field near Park Lane, Woodchester in Gloucestershire on 4-Aug-1941.
National Probate Calendar confirms DoD 4-Aug-1941.
Was a Hurricane Collision but serial number and info on other pilot remains unknown at present

His Log Book was on sale at Christies - Link no longer works but

"Gloster Aircraft at Brockworth 16-8-40 as production test pilot. Log book ends 31-7-41 with 2220hrs flown approx'
on possibly 50 types"

So he was a test pilot at Brockworth other pilot maybe "Marshall"


The book 'Wings over Glos' states he was in the crash of an unidentified Hurricane of Gloster A/c Co at Park Lane Woodchester on 5th August (sic),
''following a collision with another a/c' involving 'Test Pilot Marshal'
with no indication of whether he was a casualty or not.

davew
18th May 2021, 14:39
Paul

I came across an account of the incident of 4 August 1941 in a local magazine 'Woodchester Word'. I have little to add to what you have written except to say that I investigated the mystery pilot 'Marshall' and believe him to have been Philip Edward Gordon Marshall, b 19th August 1912 at Honiton. In 1932 he was an aircraft apprentice and had gained his flying certificate at Airwork. On the 1939 List he is living at Hounslow and his occupation given as 'Test Piloting and Sales Dept., de Havilland He died at Little Sodbury, Glos 10/2/1985. His funeral notice and the 1939 List name him as 'Gordon-Marshall'

regards

DaveW

paulmcmillan
3rd November 2021, 10:38
I have the following ex RAFO Officer who was knocked down on Bus on 18th Oct 1940 and killed - He was demobilised on 13th Oct 1940 and so NOT on CWGC


24038 Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES RAFO F/O 24.04.40 trans. from General Duties to Administrative and Special Duties Branch -


See newspaper report below for details

Notes:

1) He was ONLY ranked as high as Flying Officer at time of death
2) It would be interesting if his participation in Ops over Germany could be confirmed!


He was commissioned SSC

The undermentioned are granted short service commissions as Pilot Officers on probation,
with effect from and with seniority of the 4th Jan. 1927:—
Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES.


Pilot Officer on probation Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES is confirmed in rank. 30th Apr. 1928.


Undermentioned are promoted to the rank of Flying Officer: Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES. 4tb July 1928.



LG 17th May 1938
The undermentioned Flying Officers are transferred to the Reserve. 4th Jan. 1932:—
CLASS C. .
Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES.

RAFO
The undermentioned Flying Officers are
transferred from class A to class C on the
dates stated:—
4th Jan. 1938.
Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES

LG 7 February 1939
The notification in the Gazette of 17th May 1938 concerning Flying Officer Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVIES


RAFO

The undermentioned Flying Officers are
transferred to the Administrative and Special
Duties Branch on the dates stated: —
24th Apr. 1940.
Arthur Reginald Sinclair DAVTES (24038).


Cannot find termination in LG for October 1940

He is in Oct 1940 AFL but not in Dec 1940 AFL

The Nov 1940 AFL is not online



Published: Friday 25 October 1940
Newspaper: Uxbridge & W. Drayton Gazette
County: London, England
Type: Illustrated | Words: 1412 | Page: 7 | Tags: none

The Advertiser And Gazette, Friday, October 25, 1940
R.A.F. OFFICER WHO FLEW OVER GERMANY
Killed By Bus At Uxbridge
Had your husband done any flying in this war?
"Yes, The top of his lungs were frozen during a flight over Germany in the early part of the war"
This was a question and answer at the inquest on Monday at the Rockingham Arms, Uxbridge, on
Arthur Reginald Sinclair Davies, aged 36, a Flight Lieutenant, formerly in the R.A.F., who was
knocked down and killed by a bus on Friday—five days after he had been demobilised.

(So demobilised Sunday 13th October and killed Friday 18th October 1940)

The accident occurred near the car park of the Swan and Bottle. High-street. Uxbridge during
the black-out and an air-raid alert The night was described as, very dark.

The driver of the bus involved has this remarkably fine record:

Driven far a total period of 38 years — seven years horse-drawn vehicles. Possesses a clean licence.
No previous accident of any sort. Holds six Safety First certificates and silver medal for meritorious
driving, with four bars.

When the driver. Mr. Henry Robert Brown, who lives at 87, Brixham crescent. Ruislip. confirmed
this record which was read, out by his solicitor, he was deeply affected.

Coroner's Comments

In returning a verdict of "Accidental Death." Mr. Harold Broad-bridge. Deputy Coroner, said he was going
to depart from his usual custom in traffic cases and exonerate the driver from blame. The evidence showed that
there was no negligence, and he thought it a case in which the driver, who had such an extraordinary record,
should be exonerated.

Giving evidence of identification Mrs Davies, of 15. Palace-court Bayswater. said her husband
was on the reserve of officers before war broke out, and re-joined the R.A.F.
She saw him alive on the morning of the accident.

She knew he was going to be demobilised. but did not know that he had actually left.

The Coroner. I am informed that he was demobilised on October 13, so, for the purpose
this inquiry. I shall describe as a flight lieutenant, formerly in the R.A.F.

Dr. Hotson said that he saw Mr Davies at the scene of the accident. He was dead. A post-mortem
examination showed the cause of death was fracture of the skull and shock from multiple injuries.

Started To Cross, Returned

Mr. Derek Talbot Elsden, of " Garden Reach," Howlett's-lane. Ruislip, who was standing in the
Swan and Bottle car park when the accident happened, said Mr Davies was walking along the kerb.
He went a little way across the road, returned to the kerb, and started to cross the road again,
when he was knocked down. The bus was going slowly about ten or twelve miles an hour — and
Davies was walking towards it at the tune..


Mr Frank Gearing, of 6 Dickens-avenue. Hillingdon. the bus conductor. said they were proceeding from
the garage along the Denham-road to Pinner. He was standing at the front entrance, and as they were
passing the Swan and Bottle he saw a shadowy form move from the car park into the road in front of the bus.
The bus swerved, there was a bump, and the bus pulled up quickly

P.C Lane said he found Mr Davies lying in front of the wing of the near-side hind wheels under the,
lifeguard with his head to-wards the kerb. The bus was about seven feet from the near-side kerb and
brake marks showed that it had pulled up within six feet. The driver said "I was a approaching the
canal bridge when I saw a shadow walk from the pavement about two feet in front of me I braked
and swerved to my off-side, felt a bump and stopped.-

A Dark Object

Mr Brown. confirmed this statement. As he was passing the car park, he said a dark object loomed
up about two feet in front of the bus, coming from the near-side. He did not know what it was.
He swerved and pulled up at once. An air-raid alert was in progress, and the bus was carrying the
regulation wing lights and tail light His vision was about six feet.

After the Coroner had recorded his verdict Mr. Angelo-Thompson. on behalf of the driver
and London Transport Board. expressed sympathy with the widow in a most unfortunate accident.

The funeral of Flt.-Lieut Davies took place in Hillingdon Cemetery on Tuesday. The arrangements
being carried out by Messrs. H C Grimstead. of Ruislip.

paulmcmillan
14th March 2022, 10:52
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?28568-SAAF-Name-Updates-C-O-Record-of-King-Edward-VII-School-Johannesburg&p=171424#post171424

"Missing entry CWGC ??

Record of King Edward VII School Johannesburg has

Lieut. Rex Distin Martienssen SAAF


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Distin_Martienssen

"Because of his early death while training as a lieutenant in the South African Air Force in World War II,"

Date of death 23 August 1942


Died Military Hospital Voortrekkerhoogte, Pretoria 23 August 1942

Occupation Lieutuant Launec? 1131R Military College Voortrekkerhoogte assume
1131R service number ?

Launec? unclear..

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...176&cc=2520237

Cause Coronary Selena
Contributory Cause: Influzenza

Duration Several years

NOT ON CWGC

NOT ON South African Graves

Maybe Should be added to Missing Airman ?"

paulmcmillan
23rd May 2022, 11:29
32133 James Richard TALBOT F/Lt 28.12.36 class A Service number
Birth 31 Dec 1909 Portarlington, Laois, Ireland
Death 2 Dec 1945 Watford, Hertfordshire, England

Still AFL July 1945 - not on CWGC



Killed Hermes 1 airliner G-AGSS Sunday 2 December 1945 - Date Confirmed By Newspaper report (some sources say 3rd Dec)
Verdicts of accidental death were recorded on
Flight Lieut. James Richard Talbot (35), chief test pilot of the Handley Page Co.,
and Edgar Alexander 'Ginger' Wright (31). Flight Test Observer on
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19451202-0

http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/flight-lieut-j-r-talbot-test-pilot-r-a-f-o.30669/page-2#post-854896
https://jamestalbottestpilot.wordpress.com/

Killed in Hermes 1 airliner G-AGSS