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Thread: 639993 Jack Stanley Southern, RAF Aircraftman 1st class, wir.op. Died 14th Jan 1941

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    Default 639993 Jack Stanley Southern, RAF Aircraftman 1st class, wir.op. Died 14th Jan 1941

    I am researching on behalf of a local history group several RAF and RAFVR service men who are buried in Commonwealth War Graves in Agecroft Cemetery Manchester. I already have the information provided by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I have made a seperate post for each person.

    I am looking for information for the following person, details and reason for death, service records, any other information you may feel would be of interest.

    639993 Jack Stanley Southern, RAF Aircraftman 1st class, wir.op.

    Died 14th Jan 1941. Age 19.

    Death likely registered in Runcorn.

    Kind regards,
    Sue.

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    Sue,
    Now this one is more interesting. It would seem he Enlisted, from civilian life, in March 1938 (location not known). All the info seems to point to the fact that he was a Ground Wireless Operator, rather than an Aircrew Wireless Operator.
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 17th January 2011 at 16:40. Reason: Clumsy spelling mistake
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Peter, we have mentioned this before, the dates on those enlistment tables are dates when the serial number batch was allocated.

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?27-RAF-RAF-OR-Service-Numbers

    In this batch, they would have thus enlisted 44,720 men in one month? and 29,993 before Jack Southern came to the desk.

    Starting in March 1938 men were being issued this batch of serial numbers.
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    using the CWGC saerch engine I mentioend last week by Geoff Sullivan
    same date and same Killed on active service list, same registration district Runcorn

    Sgt (Pilot) S J Saunders 748378

    neither are mentioned on henk's unaccounted airmen threads so I'd guess a Lysander loss maybe.

    Note that Southern does have the (W/Op) listed against him which I think normally indicates aircrew.

    And, we have previously mentioned the likely cuprit aircraft:
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?880-Non-operational-losses/page2

    Lysander R2000 of 6 AACU
    Malcolm will have more details from his site.
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 17th January 2011 at 17:17.
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    The reason that SAUNDERS and SOUTHERN were not on my unaccounted airmen list was because I had them both on Lysander R2000 of 6 AACU; they hit a balloon cable and crashed near Runcorn, Cheshire.
    Regards,
    Henk.

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    Default Jack Stanley Southern

    Thanks to all for the replies.

    A bit of a shot in the dark now..... but.........one post suggests Southern was possibly a ground wireless operator as opposed to air crew. If I understand corrrectly one of the uses of the Lysander was transporting SOE operatives in and out of occupied Europe. Is it possible that Southern was operating his wireless in occupied territory and was returning from his duties there???

    Kind regards,
    Sue.

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    As an aside, in all probability this airman probably enlisted in the RAF in April 1939. The following are confirmed enlistment dates and his service number falls between the two dates:

    639455 enlisted 4/4/39
    640981 enlisted 25/4/39

    Rgds

    Jonny
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

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    Does anyone have a start date for SOE Lysander operations?

    I read online that 161 Squadron was formed up for these duties in August 1941.

    This is an AACU, Anti Aircraft Co-Operation Unit aircraft, they were ordinary airmen going about their ordinary AACU duties I would beleive. They would have towed targets for AA training.

    Again, order up the crash card Form 1180 for this one to see what it says.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941%20-%200406.html?search=639993

    They are both listed as Killed on Active Service (KOAS) in the RAF Casualty list 59 at the above link. They'd be Killed in Action if on a return from France unless their duties were being hushed up.
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    And to veer off for a moment.

    Enlistment numbers
    610000 to 654720 Mar 1938 Civilians

    total numbers 44,720 and 29,993 before Jack Southern came to the desk
    they got to 640981 by 25/4/39 (639455 enlisted 4/4/39 - thats 1526 numbers between the two dates.

    Thus by end of April 1939 30,981 numbers were assigned from this batch. If we say roughly 13 months, thats 2383 men per month, and at that rate the batch could have been used up in 18 months, September 1939. Interesting.

    Jonny I'm PM you one more enlistment date I got recently.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hello,

    Dennis, I can't offer no certain date (others may), but to me it should be around August 1940. We had a discussion about it (Franek probably took part in it).

    First casualty I know of is F/O John Hunter COGHLAN, DFC (37719) who is buried in Boulogne Eastern Cemetery, who lost his life during the night 17/18 August 1940. CGWC gives his previous unit (No. 56 Squadron) while he was actually on strenghth of Parachute Training Unit, Central Landing School.

    He was based in Ringway, but it's likely he took off from a station closer to France, in Westland Lysander Mk II N1203.

    His body was washed ashore in France, hence his burial in Boulogne (13-B-2).

    His log-book is kept in Kew, in the AIR4 series, but no detail about this last part of his flying career unfortunately for us.

    Joss

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