Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: OTU Records?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default OTU Records?

    Did OTUs keep any records similar to ORBs? If so are they found at Kew?

    Thanks Wimpy
    An American airman, was told at Briefing to ‘Go in at 30,000 feet and keep out of the flak.”
    “If I go in a 20,000 feet, what will happen?’ asked the airman.
    “You’ll probably be mentioned in despatches”, answered the officer.
    “If I go in at 10,000 feet ?“ he asked.
    “In that case you will probably get the Congress Medal”, he was told.
    "And if I go in at 5,000 feet?’ he inquired excitedly.
    “Don’t be a fool, man”, replied his superior, “you’ll go and bump into the R.A.F. at that height.”

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    3,669
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts

    Default

    Hi Wimpy,

    yes they are available ORBs of the OTUs at Kew (recorded on the same forms 540 and 541) under Miscellaneous Units, AIR 29.

    For example:

    AIR 29/683 More informationNo. 56 previously No. 6 O.T.U., Sutton Bridge and Tealling became No. 1 T.E.U., Tealling and Milfield 1939 Jan.-1946 Feb.

    But the quality of records is very different. Sometimes you can find there interesting information about crashes and killed airmen but sometimes there is only a note "3 pilots killed on training during the month" and that is all.
    Also there are in most no lists of incoming/outgoing pupils, only the OTU staff is mentioned.

    Hope this helps

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kenya
    Posts
    719
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    And if I may, I have sometimes found absolutely no mention of aircraft losses or deaths of aircrew in certain OTU records. It appears to be a bit of a lottery as to what they contain.

    Rgds

    Jonny
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Right so trying to find out if and when a crew might have formed up might be a difficult project. Might be splitting hairs here but would the same apply to Conversion Units?

    Wimpy
    An American airman, was told at Briefing to ‘Go in at 30,000 feet and keep out of the flak.”
    “If I go in a 20,000 feet, what will happen?’ asked the airman.
    “You’ll probably be mentioned in despatches”, answered the officer.
    “If I go in at 10,000 feet ?“ he asked.
    “In that case you will probably get the Congress Medal”, he was told.
    "And if I go in at 5,000 feet?’ he inquired excitedly.
    “Don’t be a fool, man”, replied his superior, “you’ll go and bump into the R.A.F. at that height.”

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kenya
    Posts
    719
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Wimpy,

    To answer your question, yes, very much so. I looked for one crew last week at kew in a CU. Managed to find mention of the Captain leaving with the crew, but that was all.

    Rgds

    Jonny
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    529
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Dear Wimpy
    I have looked at the ORB for 16OTU Upper Heyford and found very informative lists of Staff, monthly breakdowns of incoming and outgoing personnel as well as recording events incuding individual aircraft. This may be out of the norm, but I would say, go to Kew and have a look. You never know unless you try. In some respects I have found the OTU ORB's more fascinating than the Operational squadrons as they are more of a forgotten mystery.
    Happy hunting
    James

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    3,669
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts

    Default

    I can add that I was lucky with the RCAF HCU ORB - there was incoming list of personnel + information of crew formation and finally full list of crew when leaving to an operational squadron.
    But as was already written it really depends on the author what you can find there....

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wallingford
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    If you don't have any luck with the OTU ORB, or it's not very informative, can I suggest you look at the Station ORB. I think they're AIR 28 files, but don't harangue me if I'm wrong; it's 0130! Even better, check out the Station ORB Appendices as well, which are likely to be under a different file number. The appendices often hold detailed stuff that gets omitted from the ORB proper. RAF Abingdon, home of No 10 OTU is a case in point.

    Deadrock

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kenya
    Posts
    719
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Deadrock,

    Does the RAF Abingdon Station ORB contain info for a/c losses for that portion of 10 OTU based at RAF Stanton Harcourt aswell (circa 1942/43)?

    Rgds

    Jonny
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wallingford
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello Jonny,
    Have just done a search on Abingdon at the National Archives catalogue. Doing a search on Abingdon 39-45 in the AIR catalogue returns 9 entries.

    For some reason the AIR 29 (ORBs, Misc Units) entries (48/638/639/640/641) refer to "Abingdon, Babingdon", which mystifies me. Never mind: I can't remember which one held the appendices, and I don't seems to have kept a record. (If I were there now I'd be able to check which docs I've had out back to the year Dot, but I'm not.) There is an AIR50/474 (Combat reports) about 10 OTU. but only from May to June 1942. AIR 28/8 is your best starting point, and the AIR29s to follow. There's only one NA reference to Stanton Harcourt: AIR29/882: on No. 1682 Bomber Defence Training Flight, from 1943-44.

    That's the best I can do for the moment, I'm afraid.

    Best of luck,
    Deadrock.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •