Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Liberator FK225 86 Squadron 1/8/44

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stalybridge,Cheshire
    Posts
    532
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Liberator FK225 86 Squadron 1/8/44

    Hi All,

    Would anyone happen to have any further info on this aircraft & crew that landed at Scatsta,Shetland on 1st August 1944, with battle damage to the nose and tail. It is understood it may have been in conflict with a U-boat while on anti -sub patrol from RAF Tain,Caithness.

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Regards
    Dave

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    913
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts

    Default

    Hi Dave,

    The nearest one I can see is Liberator "R" of 86 Sqn attacked U 865 on the 27/7/44. Both the Lib and U Boat were damaged in the encounter. Both returned to base. This was from "Search, Find and Kill" by Norman Franks page 70. I could not see anything for 1/8/44.

    Regards,

    John.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,311
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 218 Times in 202 Posts

    Default

    Dave,

    Norman Franks records this incident as occurring on 18/07/1944:-

    HOME ON THREE ENGINES.

    Liberator 'A' of 86 Squadron (FK225) also had an encounter on the 18th (July,1944), way up between Norway and Greenland. The crew had left base at 0159 hours to patrol areas 6700/0900 and 6800/0600. They reached their patrol zone and at 1002 hours, in position 6838/0859, 100 miles west of the Lofoten Islands, they found a fully surfaced U-boat and attacked with six D/Cs which partly straddled the stern. In a follow-up attack, the remaining two D/Cs were dropped accidentally during the run in. The Lib this time was hit in the nose and damaged, and her two navigators were both wounded. The No.3 engine was also hit and the pilot was ordered to head for home, being diverted to Scatsa [sic], where they landed at 1748. When last seen the U-Boat had lost speed and was down by the stern.

    Crew: (with additional detail added by me, where known)

    AUS411945 F/L (Capt./Pilot) John Athol PETTIFER RAAF
    AUS424867 Sgt (2nd Pilot) John Sydney JACKSON RAAF
    - ? - Sgt (1st Nav.) J C Warne RAAF ???
    - ? - Sgt (2nd Nav.) W G TARR
    - ? - Sgt (Flt Engnr.) R KEPPIE
    AUS437160 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) John Leslie RIGGS RAAF
    AUS424058 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Henry James Donald PERRY RAAF
    - ? - F/Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) R M DANIEL
    - ? - P/O (FC) G C KENT

    Again an accurate account, if brief, is noted in a boat's KTB, this time that of Kapitanleutnant Rudlolf Buechler's U-307*.

    "1302 hours, Grid AF34 - Liberator attack. Six to eight bombs - flak and strafing. Probable hits on aircraft were made."

    * Buechler was Commander of U-387, not U-307.

    See:
    U-Boat versus Aircraft:The Dramatic Story behind U-Boat Claims in Gun Action with Aircraft in World War II.
    Franks,Norman & Eric Zimmerman.
    London:Grub Street,1998
    pp.171-2.

    Several aspects of this account trouble me, but lets see what others have to say.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 1st March 2011 at 04:52.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stalybridge,Cheshire
    Posts
    532
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Liberator FK225

    Hi John/Col.

    Many thanks for your help! Spot on Col, it was coded `A` as I have a photo of the aircraft. I`ll be writing up an account on this incident in our little group magazine so this info is a great help, and a good footnote to the story John.

    Thanks again.

    Dave.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Liberator A of 86 squadron Tain

    I John Leslie Riggs, (WAG) was a member of the crew of this aircraft involved in this attack on a uboat near the Lofoton Islands. Norman Franks has the details of times and places correct, but perhaps I can supply details of what occurred.
    I was in the tail turret at the time and took a photograph of the depth charges exploding and I still have a copy. I thought the last two straddled the stern of the uboat but the boffins at base thought they not close enough to do any damage. On the second run in I felt a couple of bumps and saw two d c's exploding, which I photographed, and the aircraft immediately turned away. I watched the uboat receding in the distance apparently unharmed.
    I soon learned that one shell had hit the nose and Bill had acquired fifteen pieces of shrapnel. The other navigator Dick was not so badly hurt and was able to navigate our way home. Number 3 engine was also hit so there was nothing else to do but head for home (via Scatsa).
    The crew members not RAAF were RAF. I also have photos of them. JLR.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,311
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 218 Times in 202 Posts

    Default

    G'Day John,

    Welcome Aboard!

    A few photos of your "Old Bus" (FK225), can be found here:

    http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/index.php

    Hit - Advanced Search. Then pop FK.225 LIBERATOR in the TITLE box.

    You should get 6 pics of FK225, undergoing repairs.

    I can now tell you that:

    - ? - Sgt (1st Nav.) J. C. WARNE RAAF ???, is in fact:

    AUS429251 Sgt (1st Nav.) Ernest Richard George WARNE RAAF.

    I suspect that you already knew that!

    Another snippet (mainly for others):

    http://www.memorial.act.gov.au/person.php?id=1591

    and...

    http://www.canbap.org/resources/books.asp

    Can you recall the full names of any of the other crew members?

    A delight to hear from you.

    Regards,

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 3rd June 2011 at 14:13.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    584
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts

    Default

    One of the crew was an RAF officer named Geoffrey Charles Kent (52890)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    324
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default LIberator FK226 86 Sqn Tain 18 July 1944

    This is fascinating. My friend, Malcolm Spaven, interviewed Sgt Bert Keppie, the Flight Engineer c. 1976 in Edinburgh. Sadly, I don't know if Bert is still with us. The interview notes are not to hand just now but my recollection is that Bert thought it was a pretty close-run thing, none of the crew had encountered a U-boat before.

    It was on the same day that FL907/F of 86 Sqn (39750 S/L R P Nelms) were on a patrol between the Lofoten Islands and Jan Mayen Island when they came across U-968 (Oblt Otto Westphalen) fully-surfaced. After a serious of courageous attacks, the a/c was hit by flak and forced to ditch. Six survivors (including Nelms) were picked up from dinghies by a 210 Sqn Catalina on 21 July. Three aircrew were lost (422210 F/Sgt G S Richardson RAAF (Nav 2); 1410167 F/Sgt W J Daly RAFVR (WOp/AG) and 1381467 Sgt D A Cossey RAFVR (Flt Eng). The U-boat was attacked by R/86 Sqn on 19 July and as a result was laid up under repair in Hammerfest for six weeks. The full Nelms story is described in Ralph Barker's book 'Survival in the Sky' (William Kimber, 1976).

    Keith

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,311
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 218 Times in 202 Posts

    Default

    Hello Keith,

    Re: No.86 Sqn. Liberator GR.III FL907, on 18-7-1944:

    422210 F/Sgt G S Richardson RAAF, was in fact - NZ422210 F/Sgt Graham Speedy RICHARDSON RNZAF.

    I have the following crew:

    39750 S/L (Capt/Pilot) Reginald Pickton NELMS RAF - Survived
    AUS422735 F/O (2nd Pilot) Robert Miller SOMMERVILLE RAAF - Survived
    120115 F/Lt (1st Nav.) Kenneth Gordon GRAY RAFVR - Survived
    NZ422210 F/Sgt (2nd Nav.) Graham Speedy RICHARDSON* RNZAF +
    1381467 Sgt (Eng.?) Dennis Alfred COSSEY* RAFVR +
    R/125297 WO (Air Gnr.) J H E CONTANT RCAF - Survived
    1410167 F/Sgt (W.Op[M]./Air Gnr.) William John DALY* RAFVR +
    1394704 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) R A C GREGORY RAFVR - Survived
    1568840 Sgt (Flt. Eng.) Sgt P TONER RAFVR - Survived

    * Daly's body washed ashore later and buried in Tromso Cemetery, Norway. Cossey and Richardson RNZAF, are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

    Quite a few unresolved issues remain. Corrections/additions to above welcomed.

    This incident, also covered in:

    For Your Tomorrow:A Record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915. Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998.
    Martyn,Errol W.
    Christchurch:Volplane Press.1999.
    p.251.

    and...

    U-Boat versus Aircraft.
    Franks,Norman & Eric Zimmerman.
    London:Grub Street,1998.
    pp.170-1

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 8th June 2011 at 02:34.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Liberator A of 86 squadron Tain

    Col
    I am sorry I cannot help with the full names of the RAF members. We lived in a small world and surnames did not mean much. 2nd navigator Bill Tarr recovered from his wounds and rejoined the squadron. Goeff Kent was our Wireless Operator and laboured in that position all the way back.
    John.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •