Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Aircrash - 11th November 1947- Hornet and Lancaster / Lincoln

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Aircrash - 11th November 1947- Hornet and Lancaster / Lincoln

    Can anyone help me put this puzzle together please. I recently saw a Telegram to a Mrs A Steedman reporting that her husband D.M STEEDMAN 1344897 had been killed in a flying accident 11th November 1947.

    I did a search on the net and I think I have the crash as that of a Hornet aircraft of 19 Squadron which collided during practice attacks with a Lancaster or Lincoln of 115 Squadron.

    I have found D M Steedman on the CWGC. His rank is given as Pilot 1 of 19 squadron. So I believe that Steedman was the pilot of the Hornet.

    I have also found a PETER HARRY HUMPHREYS 84961. P/O. BRITISH. Battle of Britian veteran.

    He was credited with two enemy aircraft destroyed and awarded the D.F.C (1.10.43). On the 11th November 1947 he went as a passenger in a Lincoln during fighter affiliation exercises, to observe mock attacks. A Hornet , making a head-on attack, misjudged the breakaway and collided with the Lincoln. All in the bomber and the fighter were killed. He was cremated at Bournemouth Crematorium. He was 27 years old.

    I believe I may have found the navigator. EDWARDS, DAVID ALVIN LLOYD
    Initials: D A L
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Navigator II
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 115 Sqdn.
    Age: 23
    Date of Death: 11/11/1947
    Service No: 1656102

    This is all the information I have been able to find. Can anyone help me with any information at all regarding this accident ? Locations ? crews ? particulars of the accident ?????

    D M Steedman has I believe a 1941 (Edinburgh) service number 1344897 - but I can find no referance to his name in the London Gazette...am I missing something ??? this man must have had ww2 service?

    I look forward to any information you can help with

    Regards
    Brett

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    England
    Posts
    667
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Brett,

    From J J Halley’s ‘Broken Wings’:
    Hornet F.1 PX284 of 19 Squadron collided with Lancaster B.1 TW647, of 115 Squadron, during fighter affiliation and both crashed at Stanford, Norfolk, killing seven on the Lancaster and one in the Hornet.

    Cheers,

    Tom

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,676
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Hi Brett

    The lancaster crew were : -

    ALLAN, GEOFFREY ALDERSON Gun II 2206054
    EDWARDS, DAVID ALVIN LLOYD Nav II 1656102
    EMERY, ALICK CHARLES RICHARD Sig II 1295723
    GILLESPIE, WILLIAM HENRY Fg Off 166966
    HUMPHREYS, PETER HARRY DFC Sqn Ldr 84961
    MOORE, JOHN Gun II 1903432
    SCATCHARD, HAROLD OWEN Flt Lt 53733

    Final Landings - Cummings

    Malcolm

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thank you all for the information. This have given me a few more leads to chase up.

    I have found the following on the net :

    On 11th November 1947 Humphreys went as a passenger in one of six Lancasters of 115 Squadron taking part in a fighter affiliation exercise, his role was to observe mock attacks. A Hornet, PX284, of 19 Squadron, making an attack on the rear Lancaster, misjudged the breakaway and struck Humphreys' aircraft, which was flying second to last on the starboard side. Part of the Hornet's port wing broke off and it fell away out of control, crashing at Stamford, Norfolk. The Lancaster, TW647, went into a shallow dive, which steadily increased. The nose broke off behind the pilot's seat, throwing him clear and he opened his parachute. The other five men aboard were killed, as was the Hornet pilot.

    I have checked the CWGC and all the names listed as the Lancaster crew (kindly provided by Malcolm) are on there so if the pilot of the Lancaster did in fact survive then who was he ?

    Also D M Steedman was awarded the 1939 - 45 star, France and Germany star, and War Medal for his services during the war. To my fustration I cannot find him in the London Gazette......can anyone give me any pointers as to how to find him ???/

    Thanks again

    Regards
    Brett

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,676
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Also from Cummings, the pilot was Fg Off P E Clarke who was thrown clear and successfully parachuted to earth

    Malcolm

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,110
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Steedman would not be in the London Gazette unless he was commissioned or received a state award.

    Are you saying that Steedman had previously been commissioned and then left the RAF before returning as an NCO pilot?

    Old Duffer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Old Duffer,

    I was under the impression that Steedman would have had to have been commissioned to become a pilot ? am I completely off the mark here ?

    Malcolm,

    Thanks for the info regarding P E CLARKE, hopefully I will be able to find something on the net regarding him.

    Will a comprehensive report have been written regarding this crash ? if so will it be available to read anywhere ?

    Thanks again
    Regards
    Brett

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,110
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Steedman was a 'Pilot I' and was non commissioned (NCO) aircrew of equivalent rank to the flight sergeant.

    Between 1946 and 51, the RAF changed the ranks for NCO aircrew to recognise their trade and grade eg
    Pilot I, Navigator III, Gunner II, Engineer IV, and Master Navigator; the last named being a Warrant Officer.

    This was an unpopular arrangement and the badges of rank comprised a laurel wreath, worn on the upper sleeve, with stars (the number denoting the grade) inside the wreath and the eagle above. The Master's badge was worn on the lower sleeve. Aircrew I had a crown above 3 stars, Aircrew II - 3 stars, Aircrew III - 2 stars, Aircrew IV - 1 star and Aircrew cadet - no stars.

    The 1951 trade structure reverted to 'proper' NCO ranks and only the Master Aircrew and its badge were retained.

    Hope this clarifies Steedman's status and why you won't find him in the London Gazette.

    Old Duffer

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Old Duffer,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to let me know. Really very much appreciated. First time Ive seen Pilot 1 as a rank so was very confused !

    Thanks again for all your help.

    Regards
    Brett

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,676
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Hi Brett

    If you want to see what the badges looked like have a look at my website - http://www.rafweb.org/Ranks6C.htm

    Malcolm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •