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Thread: Timings of Promotions from Sgt Plt to Flt Sgt and WO

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    Default Timings of Promotions from Sgt Plt to Flt Sgt and WO

    Under normal circumstances, after what periods of time was a Sergeant Pilot promoted to a Flight Sergeant, and from Flight Sergeant to Warrant Officer?

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    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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    Hi Steve,

    I think it depends on several things...
    Generaly I know that in case of Czechoslovak NCOs if there was no extraordinary acts they were promoted to the higher rank approx. once per year stopping at the W/O when the particular airman has no education and other premises to become an officer.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Steve,
    In WW2 the RNZAF had standard intervals for these pomotions, presumably based on Air Ministry precedent, although I do know that in the first two or three years of the war the RAF were notoriously slow in promoting NCO aircrew, particularly in case of non-pilots. I seem to recall that some sergeant A/Gs remained such for periods of up to 18 months or more in the early days.
    From early in 1943 the RNZAF promoted Sergeants to F/Sgts with effect from 6 months of date of seniority as a Sergeant, and to Warrant Officer 18 months after that, eg. Sgt 1/6/43, F/Sgt 1/12/43, W/O 1/6/45. These promotions was automatic (provided the individual was till alive, and there were no adverse reports by comanding officers, or courts martial) and were applicable right across the service for aircrew NCOs, regardless of where they were serving (including those attached to RAF, RCAF, etc., and PoWs.) However I am not 100% certain that the RAF used this exact criterion, although it is quite possible.
    David D

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    Steve,
    Just checked my records and found I have given you some incorrect information. To give a better picture I will paste in the full text of the original RNZAF Order that introduces this time-related promotion. As you can see, it is dated 30/6/43. It was probably based, in full or in part, on an earlier AMO. The error I made was rekying on memory (yes!), and confusing NCO promotion periods with officer promotion periods - good job I decided to check up on myself, just in case. So intervals were Sgt to F/Sgt, 6 months, F/Sgt to W/O, 12 months, e.g. Sgt 1/6/43, F/Sgt 1/12/43, W/O 1/12/44.

    Promotions of effective Non-Commissioned members of Aircrew.
    ADO A.188/43 of 30/6/43. (File reference 33/2/64 DPS)
    1) It has been decided to promote effective non-commissioned officer aircrew on a time basis provided there is no adverse report on the NCO under review.
    2) Commanding Officers are to forward to Air Department before 15th July 1943, lists of all personnel under their command who have as at 26th May, 1943, attained sufficient seniority under the following scale to be eligible for promotion. Lists should indicate either recommended or not recommended. Separate reports are to be rendered on personnel who are not recommended, stating the reasons for withholding promotion.
    3) Where airmen have been on the strength of a unit for a period insufficient for Commanding Officers to have formed an opinion, recommendation should be made from the assessment as shown on Service documents.
    4) Scale for Time Promotion:
    Sergeants to Flight Sergeants after six months service in rank of Sergeant.
    Flight Sergeants to Warrant Officers after twelve months service in rank of Flight Sergeant.
    5) The effective dates will be as follows:-
    W.e.f. 1st April 1943 for all promotions where seniority is of 15 months or over.
    W.e.f. 1st May 1943 for all promotions where seniority is of 12 months or over.
    W.e.f. 15th May 1943 for all promotions to Flight Sergeants with seniority of 9 months or over.
    W.e.f. 1st June 1943 for all promotions to Flight Sergeant with seniority of 6 months or over.
    After 1st June 1943, as promotions fall due on time.

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    Excellent, thanks David, just what I was after.

    Thanks for taking the time to post and re-post

    Regards
    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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    Here is an example of an airman who joined pre-war as a U/T Air Obs (II), from his service records.

    AC2 - 6 Feb 1939 (on enlistment)
    LAC - 7 Feb 1939
    A/Sgt - 24 Jun 1939
    Sgt - 31 Dec 1939
    Temp F/S - 1 Apr 1941
    Temp W/O - 1 Oct 1941


    I have an example of another airman also from his service records.

    AC2 - 7 Jun 1939 (Aircraft Handler Electrician U/T)
    AC1 - 31 Dec 1940
    T/Sgt - 31 Dec 1941 (Air Gunner)
    A/F/S - 31 Dec 1941
    A/W/O - 6 Jan 1943


    I'll dig out some other service records and see what they hold for you.

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    Here we are, a couple of pilots

    Enlisted 12 Apr 1939 and AC2 (Pilot U/T)
    T/Sgt - 13 Apr 1939
    T/F/S - 1 Apr 1941


    this one below is Cy Barton VC

    AC2 - 16 Apr 1941
    LAC - 1 Nov 1941
    T/Sgt - 10 Nov 1942
    A/F/S - 5 Sep 1943

    His wings were awarded 10 Nov 1942


    and my last one

    AC2 (Aircrafthand/U/T Pilot) - 8 Feb 1942
    LAC (U/T Pilot) - 8 Jan 1943
    T/Sgt (Pilot) - 26 Nov 1943

    His wings were awarded 26 Nov 1943

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    Those were all RAF airmen but this is a British born RNZAF Observer who was later awarded a DFC and Killed on Ops with PFF

    Enlisted RNZAF (AC2) 19 Jan 1941
    T/Sgt (U/T Air Obs) 20 Dec 1941

    He was commissioned in April 1942, I note that his Air Observer brevet award was the same date as his promotion to T/Sgt in common with those RAF chaps.

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    Default Ed Cooke

    Regarding aircrew promotions,as A W/Op AG,I received my Sgts Stripes on completing Gunnery Course at Stormy Down on January 11th 1941
    After atour of ops was posted to 19 OTU Kinloss.Febuary 1943 it came through on AMO's that W/OP.AG's were eligable for F'Sgt,I received my crown backdated to August 1st.1942
    May 1941 again a AMO came through stating that WOPO.AG's were eligable for there Warrant,mine was backdated to Febuary 8 August 1943.
    A few years ago I applied for my Warrant,quite a surprise when it came dated August 2bd 1942 as it had been entered on my records as 2.8.43 instead of 8.2.43.

    Ed

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    Thanks for the feedback, gents. Looks like quite a range of periods before promotion, muddying the waters from David's nice, clear answer! And I thought it was a simple question, but then it usual is the case that most questions I pose seem to have complicated answers! :-)

    Cheers
    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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