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Thread: Fate of Spitfire W3821

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    Default Fate of Spitfire W3821

    Hello All,

    Who would be able to give more details on the fate of Spit V W3821? Sources vary A-B gives 28.10.41 for which details are known, but some other sources give as 17.01.42 the date of the accident, being SOC some days later, but no details are known for the latter as far as I know.

    Does anyone know any details (if exist) of the accident dated 17.01.42, and the name of the pilot involved?

    Thanks

    Phil

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    Hi Phil,

    according to:

    http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p013.htm

    W3821 Vb 2007 EA M45 FF 26-8-41 9MU 27-8-41 452S 11-9-41 Tyre burst on landing ground looped and tipped up Redhill 28-10-41 not repaired CAC 17-1-42 SOC 25-1-42

    I would say that there was no other accident on 17.1.42 - only the clasification was done but I am not able to decode the abbreviation CAC.


    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Hello Pavel,

    I'd say CAC stands for Category Ac, one of the "accident categories" which are recorded in the form 78. Meaning changed at one point in WW1, but if my memory serves me well, "Ac" was repairable. The fact is that I'm more involved with "category E" aircraft (= complete loss).

    Joss

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    Hi Joss,

    yes I was thinking also about Cat AC but as it is "For repair by contractor's working party" I am thinking it may have also different meaning...
    Or it was Cat AC but for some other reason it was simply not repaired...

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Gents
    W3821 'Pemba III'

    according to 'Gifts' the a/c ground looped at Redhill on 28th October, Flt Lt Thorold-Smith unhurt. Repaired on site and returned to service, involved in the shooting down of two Bf 109s on 6th November (Thorold-Smith). A/c involved in another incident 17th Jan , circumstances not described, and was sent for repair but was instead SOC on the 25th.
    regards

    DaveW
    Last edited by davew; 17th May 2011 at 09:57. Reason: typo

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    Default Yes but...

    Hello Gents,

    That seems logical, and I follow you. However I must point out that this Spitfire continues to appear on 452 Sqn ORB until more or less mid-January 42. It was indeed Thorold-Smith's regular mount, and he changed of from 22 January onwards for other Spit Vs.

    I know that ORBs can have many errors and diarist not alwayas reliable, but this fact is a bit interesting to tell.

    Phil

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    Phil,

    I don't understand! 17th Jan is mid Jan.

    regards

    DaveW

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    Hi Dave,

    Yes, I know this source, and this is the source which bothers me because it comes against what A-B is stating. The problem there is no known accident card for W3821 on the date of 17 January and nothing appears either on the ORB on that date (Form 540). Usually when a pilot wreck an aircraft the diarist reports that event, even if cannot really state of the Category.

    So the mistake can coming from either the diarist which continued to write W3821 even sent away, either the accident card is missing, that's possible, but in the same time, Form 1108 should at least states that the aircraft was involved in an accident (the case for 28.10.41) using the classical abbreviations. But two mistakes for the same aircraft on two different forms appear a bit strange to me.

    Phil

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    Hi Gents,

    I can only add that everything is possible...
    I have seen one case of Spitfire from which pilot baled out and was captured and 1180 stated that the plane was only damaged, repaired and continue in service.
    Unfortunately I have no idea how the plane got back to UK:)

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Just a minor contribution - I have regularly seen in RAF/RCAF records delays of several days or weeks between an accident and classification of damage, and also delays of several days between classification and the official "struck off" date. The struck off date is just that, a date, and the actual scrapping or whatever could take place after another delay. So, it is possible that the accident of 28 October could have led to a classification on 17 January and an official struck off date of 25 January, with the aircraft still in physical existance for several more days or even weeks.

    Is CAC possibly an abbreviation for a repair facilty or company? If the aircraft was transported from the accident site, then surveyed and declared beyond hope, that could explain the delay from October to January.

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