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Thread: 13 Sqn ORB

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    Default 13 Sqn ORB

    Can anyone tell me if the 13 Sqn ORB exists for 1942, in particular the 18 12 42.

    thanks

    Daz

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    Hi Daz,
    Yes the NA hold a copy of the 13 Sqn ORB for 1942, at least upto end June. So if the Sqdn was still in the UK on the date you're after there's every chance they have it. I know they left for North Africa late 1942 and I don't know if the ORB that was filled out in that theatre would have made it back to England.

    I have copies for the July 41 to June 42 period but sadly the NA do not have any forms 541 predating May 42, only the forms 540. If you'd like scans of what I have feel free to ask.

    Cheers,
    Walter

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    Daz.

    13 Sqn ORB Apr 1926 - Dec 1943 = AIR 27/181
    13 Sqn ORB Appendices Jun 1940 - Jun 1948 = AIR 27/185A
    and, rather oddly,
    13 Sqn ORB Appendices Jan 1941 - Sep 1942 = AIR 27/ 185B

    Brian

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    That is most interesting! Always something new to be learned on this wonderful forum!

    Brian, I was not aware of there being appendices to the ORB, can you tell me what kind of information these contain please?

    TIA

    Walter

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    Walter,

    Probably the best way to describe the difference between the ORB (Form 540) and ORB Appendix (Form 541) is that the former is a diary whereas the latter gives details of the work actually done. For example if the squadron was involved in an operation then the Appendix would list the names of each crew, their aircraft's number, the target, time up and time down and details of the flight.

    If you go to http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/L02Pgs/orbsTimeLine.htm, you will see what I mean. The link provides the ORBs for 467 and 463 Squadrons; click on any month and you should find that the first 10-12 pages are in diary format, whilst the subsequent pages provide crew details as described above.

    Some ORBs are better than others in the detail provided, and I'm not sure what the standard was like during the early months of the war.

    Brian

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    Thank you Brian, I find that most intriguing. I was aware that the ORB is composed of forms 540 and 541 but assumed these were filed together at the NA, hence my question re the appendices.

    When I acquired my copies fm the NA quite some years ago I had ordered copies of the ORB from that to that date and received both forms 540 and 541 though the latter only for the last few weeks of the period requested. When I enquired with the NA they explained they did not have copies of the forms 541 for the earlier date. Oddly, both the form 540 and 541 copies bear a label AIR 27 /181! Copies that I acquired for fm the 18 Sqdn ORB for late 1940 contained both 540 and 541 forms completely, all bearing the same AIR 27 / 243 label.

    I will definitely get in touch with the NA to see whether those missing 541's are to be found in AIR 27 / 185B as these would help to fill a few more gaps in the history of Blenheim T2254 and its crew.

    Will post the outcome in due course.

    Thanks again,

    Walter

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    Hi all,

    To continue this thread, I finally obtained a CD copy of AIR 27/185 B only to find it does not contain the Forms 541 I'm after but Movement Orders. Still an interesting read (those pages that are legible anyway!) but, again not what I was looking for.

    That leaves us with AIR 27/185 A which, as indicated by Brian, also comprises the Jan 41 to Sep 42 period that 27/185B covers.

    Could anyone tell me if I will find my 541's in AIR 27/185 A - Brian perhaps? I could ask TNA of course but that will probably cost me a lot as it will entail "research"!

    TIA

    Walter

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    Correction - I just recalled I had in fact asked TNA for an estimate to obtain a copy of AIR 27/185A as well as B at the time and they quoted 20.00 .

    The estimate doesn't tell me if it contains the 541's of course...

    Cheers,

    Walter

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    Well I in meantime received the copy of AIR 27/185A (CD in the mail even though I opted for the download delivery!) and this again only covers Movement Orders and a few extra's but no Form 541's.

    A few years ago I ordered paper copies of the 13 Sqn ORB covering the time from their move from Hooton Park to Odiham (where they converted to Blenheim IV), up until end June 42'. The pages have a stamped page number and the few 541's that are there fit in the numerical sequence. These 541's cover the three 1000 Raids which in the given time frame where the only operations that 13 Sqn flew on. TNA told me at the time they had no other 541's for that period so I now think that the squadron only completed these forms for operational flights and not for training flights. Makes sense I suppose... other ideas/comments welcome.

    What I would like to find out is whether "B" Flights Blenheims "I" and "P" flew together on an army co-op training exercise on 23.04.1942. A Form 541 would confirm that of course, if only it existed!

    Would the station (ie RAF Odiham) ORB contain any useful info in that respect?

    TIA

    Walter

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    For those who have not seen the "Dinkum" article (AP.3040), here is the Workshop Manual:

    http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=3504727

    Col.

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