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Thread: AM form 1180 Hendon + Air Historical Cards

  1. #41
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    Default 2nd Group, Examples

    This is the group that caused me the most trouble.

    There are relatively few different types

    ABOK - not a factor
    AOK - not a factor (on later 1180s)

    AAF - Airframe fire eg hyraulic lines
    ABM - Vibration
    ACF - Caught fire on the ground
    AOC - Out of control
    ANT - Nosed over on landing
    AOP - Lost power
    ATO - Turned over

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  2. #42
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    Default

    Probably a silly time of night to resurect this thread,
    I am using this key to read some new 1180's I got and they make a lot of sense now. Thanks

    Under the Groups
    FB
    ABOK
    POK Pilot was OK in this case
    E T PS PM I I assume some of this relatse to petrol shortage
    U OK/B Undercarriage was OK, in wasn't lowered!
    A OK - Airframe ok, in so much as the rad was torn off the bottom of the Hurricane in a belly landing
    X GA or GR XCR ????
    W VF weather was cloudy, foggy 10/10 cloud

    Hurricane PZ774 1402 Flight 1945
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  3. #43
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    Default A.M. 1180 Flying Accident Card

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldduffer View Post
    The process of sticking a 'knitting needle' through the stack of cards was called the 'Optical Coincidence System' and it worked very successfully to highlight cards which met or did not a particular requirement. After that, one was able to use the initial results for further investigation.

    When I worked at the Director of Flight Safety (DFS(RAF)), as it was then called, I was part of the initial design team which set about computerising the existing manual system into something fit for the 20th century. The resulting system was called PANDORA. It has served the armed forces, in several iterations, very well and allowed more detailed analysis of accidents and incidents to be undertaken.
    Hello Colin, Ross and All

    In 1940 the details compiled on the A.M. 1180 were then used by the S.4 Statistics Branch to produce a Monthly Table of RAF Flying Accidents under various "Cause" groupings down the table side, per (by) Operations / Training / Other / Fighter / Bomber / Command / Night / Day / etc., across the top of the table. The monthly tables were then filed with an accompanying Monthly Review of RAF Flying Accidents into a volume known as SD 96 (released in the mid 1990 decade) which are in AIR 10 & AIR 20 for WW 2, highlighting some of the problems for attention. Both the Tables and the Monthly Reviews survive for early WW 2, but only the Monthly analysis Tables survive for the rest of the war.

    Epidemic accidents of the same type were then put forward for "Ad-hoc Investigations", or special attention.

    I asked the AHB where the A.M. 1180s came from during my research into a selection of the 1940 Accident Cards I photocopied at the RAF Museum and as far as the AHB could say, it was believed the Accident Cards were passed to them from the RAF "Safety Branch", which sounds like where you worked.

    Colin and Ross, thanks for the research, which you conducted for your various books.

    Regards Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 19th May 2012 at 18:18.

  4. #44
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    Default Form 765(c) Was Completed When "NOT ATTRIBUTABLE TO ENEMY ACTION"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Richardson View Post
    Dave
    ...

    "I emailed them for details of my uncle's aircraft. I'd previously been told that they very rarely send out copies of the AM 765" ... "Here's what I got in response:"

    "I can confirm that we hold a copy of the F765c" ...

    “The aircraft was returning from a mining operation and from the accounts of the other aircraft in the area it is likely that this was the one heavily engaged by to [2?] ground defences and probably damaged. Return would therefore be made at low level and it would appear that allowance was not made for rising ground, up to 600’, in the area where landfall was made”
    ...

    Dave

    Hello Dave

    Hope you don't mind, but I have extracted parts of your quote above.

    Oh wait a minute, I think the AHB have inadvertantly answered your friendly fire question.

    Dave you stated that:-
    i) the AHB say the aircraft involving your Uncle has a 765c.
    ii) that the AHB also say the aircraft was engaged by ground defences and probably damaged.

    They cannot be enemy defences! Because a 765c was completed when "Not Attributable to Enemy Action".

    If you did see the original 765c complete, you may find that it has a little more info and/or was suggesting a Court of Inquiry?

    If it was Plymouth it sounds like the aircraft was engaged by our Naval ship, or our shore defences, lost height and hit the rising coastal ground.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 12th December 2012 at 23:06.

  5. #45
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross_McNeill View Post
    Coo..

    eg Engine
    ALL PS
    PC
    PH
    PP
    PM
    G
    D
    M

    Regards
    Ross
    Hello Ross

    I have mentioned this online somewhere before, which you may already have seen. A fair amount of the information collated on WW2 RAF Flying Accident Cards was then added up each month and then laid out on Monthly Statistical Tables in SD 96 (now at TNA, Kew with some copies at the RAF Museum) of columns and rows on fold out pages and from these Monthly tables it is possible to work out some of the lettering/numbering used in early WW2 and into 1941 at least and possibly some other lettering used later in WW2.

    Monthly RAF Statistical Tabulated Reports by S.4 are in:-

    See AIR 10/3913 Statistical Reports on Flying Accidents 1940 - 1943 AP No. SD96.
    See AIR 20/12269 Statistical Reports on RAF Flying Accidents 1939 - 1942 SD 96

    When I told the RAF Museum on a visit to their Archives two years ago, that I was able to work out the 1940 AM 1180 Accident Cards pretty much from the Monthly tables in SD 96, they said, oh we have some copies of SD 96 too.

    In AHB correspondence several years ago, they happened to mention that the Accident Cards were used to analyse accidents by a Safety Branch, so I thought that there must be some Monthly, Quarterly analysis somewhere at Kew. Especially once I discovered "No Report in S.4" written on one of the AM1180s, I knew immediately that, S.4 was the Air Ministry Accident Statistics Branch and P.4 was the Accident "Personal" Branch, as I had seen other references to S.4 in AIR 2 files and P.4 in relation to personal papers about my Grandfather's crash.

    I PM'd you regarding a Group file copy of something else, some weeks ago, but not heard yet.
    Regards Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 9th January 2013 at 08:38.

  6. #46
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    Default

    Hi all,

    many thanks to Ross for excellent help with decoding of codes of which I has no clue what they stand for.
    I was able to decode 7 of 8 groups - the only mystery is the group for Pilot - I have "PSS" on my card - anyone has an idea what it means?

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

  7. #47
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    Default

    Hi all, I would like to make this thread actual again as I am still not able to decode the last group of three letters at A.M. 1180 - the group covering the Pilot's part in the accident.
    Particularly I am interested in "PSS" - anyone has an idea what it means?

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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