Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 47

Thread: AM form 1180 Hendon + Air Historical Cards

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    866
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Many thanks Ross

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,116
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    The process of sticking a 'knitting needle' through the stack of cards was called the 'Optical Coincidence System' and it worked very successfully to highlight cards which met or did not a particular requirement. After that, one was able to use the initial results for further investigation.

    When I worked at the Director of Flight Safety (DFS(RAF)), as it was then called, I was part of the initial design team which set about computerising the existing manual system into something fit for the 20th century. The resulting system was called PANDORA. It has served the armed forces, in several iterations, very well and allowed more detailed analysis of accidents and incidents to be undertaken.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,700
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Coo..

    Wing Commander Spry's apprentice...

    Any guidance where to look for the breakdown of some of the edge codes Colin?

    eg Engine
    ALL PS
    PC
    PH
    PP
    PM
    G
    D
    M

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    894
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Ross:
    Looked for patterns on all the Fortress AM Form 1180s re ENGINES and the stated cause but couldn't find one. In fact one aircraft that was completely lost has 'All Eng' notched - makes sense - but then so does another when only one engine failed in flight. I suspect that if one looked at enough Form 1180s a pattern might emerge but I also suspect that they were not used consistently.
    Regards:
    Robert

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,116
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Ross,

    Not exactly Wing Commander Spry's apprentice - he worked in the next office. However, when I was 'up the jungle' on a remote airstrip in south east Asia, I worked for the late Squadron Leader Tony Spry - who was always being teased about being demoted and sent to the Far East as a punishment etc.

    Tony was a Hastings sqn flight commander in another incarnation and was the last guy to fly TG577 before it was lost in the dreadful accident at Abingdon.

    Returning to the Thread, my memory is a complete blank on what the codes meant and in the years since I have been using the cards regularly, I have not had cause to use these codes or refresh my memory on what they mean. Sorry

    Colin Cummings

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,700
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Cheers Colin,

    Amazing how the Hastings accident keeps coming into memory. One of the labourers on my site was of traveller stock and his childhood memories are all fixed as x years before/after the paratrooper crash and not cropping seasons as normal. His family lived about a mile from the crash site.

    Might as well use this thread to open up discussions on the reporting codes.

    In a similar manner to Colin I usually ignore the reporting codes and read the narrative on the cards,

    I stress that this is my understanding and not any offical list.

    Looking at the groups first, a full code report comprises of 8 groups

    xxxxx Axxxx Pxxxx Exxxx Uxxxx Axxxx Xxxxx Wxxxxx

    1st Group relates to Stage of flight and first letter can be from L, T, O, F, I, M, FS
    2nd Group starting with A is either Type of investigation or denotes a class of accident
    3rd Group starting with P is pilot
    4th Group starting with E is engine
    5th Group starting with U is undercarriage
    6th Group starting with A is Airframe
    7th Group starting with X is external influences
    8th Group starting with W is weather

    So taking 1st Group we have
    L - Landing stage
    T- Taxy stage
    O- Take Off stage
    F - Flight stage
    I - Instrument stage (but I have seen glider accidents in first 60' so possibly I-Initial climb as well)
    M - Miscellaneous stage
    FS - Force landing is Sea

    I'm fairly confident of the first letters of the groups.
    The next letters in each group are the ones open to more debate

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,700
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default 1st group (Stage) examples

    This is a list of codes I'm fairly happy with.

    I'll trawl through a batch of 1180s in the next few hours to add to this

    Once again
    L - Landing stage
    T- Taxy stage
    O- Take Off stage
    F - Flight stage
    I - Instrument stage (but I have seen glider accidents in first 60' so possibly I-Initial climb as well)
    M - Miscellaneous stage
    FS - Force landing in sea

    LBG - Landing, bad ground
    LCO - Landing, collision with object/obstruction
    LH - Landing, Heavy
    LM- Landing, Miscellaneous
    LO -Landing, Overshoot
    LOCO - Landing, Overshoot collision with object/obstruction eg boundary fence
    LS - Landing, swung
    LU - Landing, Undershoot
    LUC - Landing, undercarriage collapse

    TBG - Taxy, into bad ground
    TCO - Taxy, collision, obstruction
    TM - Taxy, miscellaneous

    OE - Take Off, engine failure
    OM - Take Off, miscellaneous
    OOC - Take Off, loss of control
    OS - Take Off, swumg

    FB- Flight, breakdown? (leading to forced landing)
    FM - Fllght, miscellaneous
    FS - Flight, force landed in sea

    ILCG - Instrument, loss of control, collision with ground
    ILCO - Instrument, loss of control, collision with object/obstruction eg wires
    IM - Instrument, miscellaneous
    ILOC - Instrument, loss of control eg spin
    ILOS - Instrument, loss of control eg stall

    As you can see sometimes there is very little difference in the codes eg swing versus loss of control so attributing cause was not an exact science.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,537
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    Ross,
    Re yr post #36.
    What sort of details are contained in entries under the 8th Group (Weather) on the 1180's? Just interested in case we are missing a source of info.
    But, as was said in some comedy programme, Pilot to Control: "Hello this is XYZ. I am just about to fly into a cliff. The QNH is 1013. The temp is +17C. And the cloud is . . . . . . " Silence.
    The fatals can't be interrogated!
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,700
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default 8th Group, Weather

    Hi Peter,

    Not missing much.

    WIA- Weather, Icing airframe
    WII - Weather, Icing, snow showers
    WM- Weather Hail/Poor
    WOK - Weather, not a factor
    WUJ - Weather, mist patches
    WWC - Weather, Wind Crosswind
    WWG - Weather, Wind Gusting
    WWM- Weather, Bumpy conditions
    WVC - Weather, Very Cloudy
    WVF- Weather Very Foggy
    WVG- Weather, Very Gusty
    WVJ- Weather, Rain
    WVS - Weather, Very Sunny (reflective/dazzled)

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,537
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    Ross,
    Tks that.
    Peter
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •