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Thread: 431105 - Unaccounted airmen - 5-11-1943

  1. #21
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    This, I would suggest in all humility, is the territory of rafweb!
    Forward Malcolm and pronounce - you are the expert!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  2. #22
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    Peter

    I'm not sure I would refer myself to an expert.

    The only reference I can find is in very early AFLs which basically stated:

    Temporary Rank - to fulfil posts in the war establishment, carrying both command and pay

    Honorary Rank - carying neither command or pay

    Cheers

    Malcolm

  3. #23
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    Malcolm

    This is about honorary commissions not honorary rank there is a big difference as I suspect the other one both pays and can issue orders

    Paul

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    Hi Paul

    In the the August 1940 AFL there were no honorary commissions listed and in October 1945 there were only four honorary commissions and these were all overseas dignataries so RAF, RAFVR, RAFO personnel were given honorary ranks not commissions.

    Malcolm

  5. #25
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    Malcolm

    Something weird going on between AFL and London Gazette.

    Firstly..

    The Glasgow Herald - January 13 1940

    "Honorary Rank in RAF cases for the duration of hostilities the grant of honorary rank in the Royal Air Force, the RAF Reserve (including RAF Volunteer Reserve), the Auxiliary Air Force, and the the Auxiliary Air Force Reserve will cease and all officers who have been granted such rank will relinquish it forthwith, states an Air Ministry announcement in the 'London Gazette" last night.

    The announcement adds - "This notice does not apply to the grant of honorary commissions or officers holding such commissions"

    The actual announcement can be found here

    Gazette Issue 34771 published on the 12 January 1940

    http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/34771/pages/226


    Secondly.. From then on, all announments in London Gazette use term Honorary Commissions..

    For instance the following (using Paul Rowland Taylor) as an example..





    London Gazette Issue 35804 published on the 27 November 1942.

    ADMINISTRATION AND SPECIAL DUTIES BRANCH.

    To be granted hon. commns. as Sqn. Ldrs.:
    Reuben William PIPER. 7th Oct. 1942.
    Ian Harry COLE.. 3ist Oct. 1942.
    Eric Ronald HAMILTON. 3rd Nov. 1942.
    To be granted hon. commns. as Fit. Lts.:
    Alex Renfrew MILLER. 7th Oct. 1942.
    3ist Oct. 1942.
    Ronald BRUCE.
    Robert Harvey LEWIS.
    Francis Hugh Campbell Morgan MINNIS.
    To be granted hon. commns. as Fig. Offs.:
    3ist Oct. 1942.
    George CALCUTT.
    David Edward DA VIES.
    Walter Vivian HOBSON.
    To be granted hon. commns. as Pit. Offs.:
    7th Oct. 1942.
    Peter Greenslade DOWNING.
    William Robert LUND.
    Paul- Rowland TAYLOR.
    Alan TROMANS.
    James Morris WOLSTENHOLMB.
    Brian George Herbert CLEGG. 2Oth Oct. 1942.

  6. #26
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    I wonder if this was something to do with giving essentially civilian aircrew such recognition, and protection, as may have been given by the Geneva Convention and its various Protocols. Just a thought?
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  7. #27
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    Looking again at the August 1940 AFL, there is a section under RAFVR Admin & Spec Duties Branch listing a number of officers with Honorary commissions ranging from A/Cdre down to Plt Off.

    There are also a few in the GD branch of the RAFVR - 1 x A/Cdre, 3 x Wg Cdrs and 9 x Flt Lts

    Malcolm

  8. #28
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    Hi

    I thought i would check first as this post is quite old..

    Do you still require information on Radio Offr (BOAC) Percy ESTALL - age 31 - formerly served in RAF. I have in my possession all his personal papers including notification of death, location of crash site and burial place etc

    Ian
    Last edited by woosh; 3rd February 2013 at 14:53.

  9. #29
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    Henk passed away last year Im afraid.

    Could you give us a few details from the papers about crash site etc?

    Also, we try not too use the quote function on the forum as it needlessly repeats information.
    If you could edit out the quote about that would be super.

    Are you a relative of the airman?
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  10. #30
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    I stumbled on this thread - I'm not sure how! - and think I may be able to shed a little light on a question which has been asked.

    I have read the account in the archives of the Poole Flying Boat Celebration archives (no. 7) of the crash of BOAC Sunderland G-AGIB.

    Paul Rowland Taylor was my uncle. He grew up in Nayland Suffolk where his father was the headmaster of the village school, so the family was in very modest circumstances. He attended grammar school in Sudbury. He was a fine cricketer and a gifted mathematician. He played the organ at Wiston (Wissington) church and there is a memorial bench in the church grounds. His mother was French and he spoke the language fluently. He won an open scholarship to St Johns College Oxford to study maths.

    I understand that following graduation he was working on the development of radar.

    Without any evidence I have assumed that his work was essentially civilian and that he was given a rank in the RAFVR to provide military cover while overseas. I believe that work on radar was undertaken at RAF HQ ME in Cairo.

    I hope that little information may be helpful. I would certainly be interested in any information about Paul that anyone else may be able to provide.

    Regards to all.
    Last edited by Chris_D_S; 1st April 2015 at 11:27.

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