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Thread: BoB Hurricane 1Sqn, 6-9-40

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    Default BoB Hurricane 1Sqn, 6-9-40

    Hi.
    This casualty from which P/O GE Goodman bailed out with a sprained shoulder has never been formally identified in connection with those parts/pieces found by Steve Vizzard at Brownings farm, Chiddingstone Kent. Or at least not according to Battle of Britain Then and Now.

    As a report stated it was 'South of Penshurst' and the farm itself is clearly North of Penshurst, is that the only reason the editor has made the exception, of not linking the casualty with Mr Vizzards finds, or has something more concrete been achieved with respect to the location + a/c identity since this book was published?

    Dave
    Last edited by david cullen; 19th October 2011 at 16:13.

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    Default

    Hi Dave,
    BoB Mk V has the same info. However could the ''south of Penshurt' be taken from the pilot's combat report or recollection, and actually be where the combat took place with the aircraft coming to earth elsewhere? Just a theory.

    BTW 'Aircraft Casualties in Kent' by Kent Aviation Historical Research Society (1990), cites Browning's Farm as the location. 'Fighter Command War Diaries' lists just one 1 Squadron machine; Cat E, so I guess someone knew where the wreckage was at the time or I presume it would have been cat. 'missing'.

    regards

    DaveW
    Last edited by davew; 19th October 2011 at 18:25. Reason: morer refs added

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    Default No.1 Squadron Hurricane lost 6 September 1940

    The reference to ‘south of Penshurst’ came from my notes extracted from the ORB back in the '70s. As I recall, it was simply not possible to establish beyond any reasonable doubt the identity of the crash site investigated by Steve Vizard at Chiddingstone as there was never any tangible evidence to connect it to the loss of GOODMAN’s aircraft which is why I recorded it as I did in BoBT&N.
    Last edited by Peter Cornwell; 20th October 2011 at 08:00.

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    Default Thanks Dave and Peter

    Yes I will inspect the ORB.
    I suspect there is little doubt this site therefore is the 1 Sqn Hurricane
    I believe the parish is in fact Chiddingstone btw.
    Dave

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    Default One for BoB T&N Peter

    Peter while you're there, Spitfire Ia X4262 does not appear in Battle of Britain Then & Now MkV.

    Merlin III FF 23-8-40 12MU 27-8-40 72S 2-9-40 Damaged by Bf109 nr Herne Bay and abandoned Marden Kent 2-9-40 SOC 23-9-40

    I have no pilot name or further details yet....
    But it does appear as an exhibit at Lashenden according to their website.
    So I could give them a shout and update you if you dont have details already.

    Dave
    Last edited by david cullen; 20th October 2011 at 16:31.

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    Default BoB Hurricane 1Sqdn 6-9-40

    Hello,
    X4262 if it was 72 Sqdn was this F/O. O. Piggs a/c ?
    It seems not. His a/c was reportedly P9458.

    However my now old penny's worth.
    2-9-40
    72 Sqdn Spitfire losses were : K9840;K9938 ;P9458 :R6806 ;X4241.
    3-9-40
    72 Sqdn Spitfire losses were : X4262 a/c DBF pilot safe.
    AND
    For the 6-9-40
    1 Sqdn Hurricane Losses were : P2686 - P/O. G.E. Goodman

    CWGC records him as lost in June of 41, parents in Nigeria.
    See write up on Goodman on www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org


    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 21st October 2011 at 04:09.

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    Default Spitfire X4262

    David,

    You will find X4262 listed in BoBT&N on 3 September 1940. I do not believe this was PIGG’s aircraft as it was only taken ‘on strength’ of No.72 Squadron as a replacement the day after he was shot down. PIGG’s machine is documented as P9458 in the ORB and despite the Accident Card recording it as ‘missing 2.9.40’ I am of the firm opinion that this was indeed his aircraft down at Elvey Farm, Pluckley, on 1 September 1940 so not amongst those lost the following day.

    Between 14.58 – 15.00 hours on 3 September 1940 Maidstone Rural ARP Centre reported a ‘British plane down on fire at 14.45 hours in fields north of Marden station MR 21/73. No damage – pilot baled out.’ This message was followed at 15.27 hours by ‘Refers 15.00 hours. Plane fell in field north end of Pattenden Lane. Pilot unhurt. Plane burnt out. No damage to property.’ On 4 September 1940 No.9 MU (salvage) records include X4262 amongst aircraft then ‘in hand’ for inspection with its location given as ‘Marden’. Unfortunately, it seems that the No.72 Squadron ORB contains no reference to any such loss on 3 September 1940 nor, indeed, to any combats on that date. So this casualty remains something of an enigma – leastways to me.

    My records currently show losses to No.72 Squadron on 2 – 3 September 1940 as follows:

    2 September 1940: 72 Squadron, Croydon

    Spitfire. Returned damaged following attack on Do17s and fighter escort over Herne Bay 12.45 p.m. Pilot Officer B. Douthwaite unhurt. Aircraft repairable.

    Spitfire X4105. Returned damaged following combat with Bf110s over Herne Bay 12.45 p.m. Squadron Leader A.R. Collins slightly wounded. Aircraft damaged but repairable.
    Exchanging with No.610 Squadron, No.72 Squadron arrived at Biggin Hill from Acklington on 31 August moving to Croydon next morning. It is clear from surviving records that during the transition they exchanged, or inherited, several No.610 Squadron aircraft (such as this) that were flown on operations.

    Spitfire K9938. Crashed and burned out on Garrington Farm, near Bekesbourne emergency landing ground, following combat over Herne Bay 1.00 p.m. Sergeant N.R. Norfolk unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

    Spitfire X4241. Believed shot down in combat with Bf110s over Dungeness 4.10 p.m. Flight Lieutenant E. Graham unhurt. Aircraft DW*S a write-off.

    Spitfire K9840. Crashed on return to Hawkinge severely damaged in combat with Bf110s south of Dungeness 4.15 p.m. Wing Commander R.B. Lees wounded in thigh – admitted to hospital. Aircraft damaged but repairable.

    Spitfire R6806. Returned severely damaged following combat over the Thames Estuary 5.30 p.m. Squadron Leader A.R. Collins wounded – admitted to hospital. Aircraft DW*N a write-off.

    3 September 1940: 72 Squadron, Croydon

    Spitfire X4262. Crashed and burned out at Pattenden Lane, Marden, 2.45 p.m. Exact circumstances unknown. Pilot believed baled out unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.
    One post-war account suggests that Flying Officer T.A.F. Elsdon was the pilot concerned. Exhibits from this aircraft displayed in Lashenden Air Warfare Museum.

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    Default

    Thanks, I go along with that.
    Sorry I didn't check the serials for the following day.
    Still its unusual the pilot is not listed.

    I've also noticed
    1) ME110 on the 4th at Smarts Hill (Penshurst, Kent)
    2) Spitfire X4322 at Batts Wood/Forge Farm Stonegate was on the 28th not the 27th
    ORB 66Sqn
    'Watkinson and Wright were shot down but landed the planes alright'
    (See my other post please re. landing this Spitfire in the branches).
    'Watty' was in fact injured in the shoulder and leg

    Dave

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    David,

    For sure research moves on and much has changed since first publication of BoBT&N in 1980. My records continue to be constantly updated in light of fresh information. The locations documented for the RAF losses you mention both originated with the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group (a generally reliable source in my experience) though the exact similarity, and thus probable duplication, totally escaped me at the time. I do note, however, that Andy Saunders and the late Pat Burgess in their ‘Battle Over Sussex 1940’ (1990) still recorded Batts Wood, Mayfield, as being an incident on 27 September 1940. I cannot access your previous posts for some reason so am in the dark as to what has been said previously so, rather than bore members witless by covering old ground, feel free to contact me ‘off-line’ on the subject.

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    Default Watty and

    Pat for one I hope was never bored of my enquiries.
    Well he was always up for reinvestigation, revisiting with me several sites in person.

    A few observations of mine wont harm, I think BoB Then+Now is the best of its kind, to date.

    Watkinson's Spitfire forced landing which I believe from RAF records was 28th not 27th Sept as per Wealden Group was in fact in Mayfield (not Stonegate as above, apologies).
    My suspician is that because Spitfire X4414 (602 Sqn Gage) forced landed at Batts Wood on the 27th the Sussex Police report for Watty was wrongly headed 27th.

    The Watkinson crash enigma (re scaling the ladder) is on this Main Category list of this forum.
    If I have any further observations I will get a PM to you.
    Dave

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