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Thread: Looking for details of 10 OTU Whitley 14 March 1941

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    Default Looking for details of 10 OTU Whitley 14 March 1941

    Evening all,
    Whitley P5087 from 10 OTU was lost in the Irish Sea 14 March 1941 I am looking for the crew and aircraft code (ZG?) please. I appreciate that 10 OTU ORB and others supply very sparse details. Appreciate any informations.
    Tony K

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    Default 10 OTU Whitley 14 /3/41

    Hi From Chorleys vol 7 OTU'S
    Whitley v P5087 ,10 OTU ,TRAINING ,
    T/O ,1045,Abingdon, on a navigation exercise,,-Base-Worcester -Strumble head-Bardsey Island-Jurby- Gt Ormes's Head-Ludlow -Base, lost without trace,but likely came down in Irish Sea, all are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial, P/O Bridson ,was a New zealander Serving RAF, On a short servICE Commission ,He had gained his DFC During a tour of Operations with 10 SQD

    CREW WERE
    1/ P/O A Bridson DFC
    2/ P/O GB Chapman.
    3/ Sgt FH Baldwin.
    4/ Sgt DC Craig.
    5/ Sgt J Orr.
    6/ Sgt WJ Savage .

    sorry no code given , hope this helps phill jones
    Last edited by phill jones; 25th January 2012 at 19:16. Reason: typo

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    Hi Rodger,

    Franks and Zimmerman cover the action on 9-5-1943. In fact, devote a chapter (A Double Kill - Almost pp.28-9), to the proceedings. Bit lengthy to transcribe, so l will restrict my quote to BD278's involvement.

    Just over two hours later, U-666 was located again, this time in Grid BE6979. Once again she stayed on the surface and fought back, the gunners claiming hits on an attacking Whitley, and although it was not seen to be shot down, was claimed as a probable. The KTB record:

    "Aircraft type Whitley 2-engined. Flak, strafing from the aircraft. Aircraft receives flak hits and emits smoke stream. At a distance of 300 metres it ditches its bombs and flies away. Crash dive."

    In fact, it was a Whitley of No.10 OTU, the Bomber Command OTU loaned to Coastal. Aircraft 'C' (BD278) had taken off at 0732 hours, passed Bishop's Rock - a focal point and a good check on position for aircraft heading for the Bay - at 0817. At 1054 they investigated two Spanish trawlers, and at 1225 sighted and attacked a U-boat with D/Cs and machine-gun fire. The aircraft was hit in the tail by the boat's gunners and the pilot wisely headed for home, landing back at 1600.

    Sgt A J Savage [sic] - Pilot
    P/O R N Searle
    Sgt F J Baker
    Sgt M Hampson
    Sgt I G Davies
    Sgt D W Milliken

    U-Boats v. Aircraft/Franks & Zimmerman. pp.28-9

    No scanner, perhaps another Forum member can help.

    Col.




    Col.

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    Thanks Col,

    Chorley also misspelled but later corrected Salvage. Milliken, the rear gunner, was my uncle. Guessing that Franks and Zimmerman must be relying mostly on German records as the ORBs characterize the attack quite differently quoting

    Up 0732 Down 1600
    0817 B.Rock. 1054 sighted 2 Spanish trawlers. 1225 sighted and attacked U/Boat with D.Cs and gun fire. Attacked U/Boat in posn MRWD 1713. 5 D.C's Torpex (1 hanging up) were released from 50 ft. 5 secs after U/Boat had submerged. Explosions were observed, the nearest estimated 55 ft short of apex of swirl and 40 ft to port. Nothing further was seen. At 1236 a second U/Boat was seen in posn MRWD 2917. As a/c approached U/Boat opened fire and bomb aimer replied with front gun obtaining hits on C/T. A/C passed over U/Boat at 50 ft. and R/G opened fire and obtained numerous hits on C/T and hull. A/C was hit in tail plane with 1 small calibre bullet. As A/C passed out of range U/Boat was seen to dive. 1555 Travose Head. Sea moderate, swell, no rain, weather fair. Visibility 6-8 miles. Patrol 2500 ft. end quote

    At any rate I need to purchase a copy

    Cheers
    Rodger
    Last edited by rmventuri; 17th May 2012 at 17:17. Reason: ops - correct spelling of misspelled

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    My thanks Phil and my apologies! Now I know that I am losing it. I have Chorley's OTU losses and totally forgot that i had it. Sorry for wasting the forum's time and space, am now on my way to the corner for a long spell! Maybe somebody would keep an eye out for me later?
    regards
    Tony K

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    Tony, you can probably come out of the corner now, you only need to be there for one minute for each year of your age, so if you are 30, then 30 minutes etc

    ;-)
    Linzee

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    COL BRUGGY, Linzee, Mark & Rodger
    Many thanks for the fantastic info regarding Sgt Walter I Ettle & F/O Gordon W F Button. I have been to see F/O Button's niece today and shared your info with her. She did not know what squadron etc he was flying with.
    They are both ex-pupils of Midsomer Norton County School, Nr Bath and, as a retirement project, I am researching the 18 young men named on the school's Role of Honour. It is interesting that neither of these airmen had a Squadron mentioned on their CWGC information. Was this general practice with OTUs or just 10OTU?

    Anyway thanks again for the brilliant info.

    Anne

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    Hi there, yes its a sadly common practice with most units not of Squadron status. it means that almost all the casualties of training accidents at training units, AFU's, OTU's, BFTS, B&GS's, AGS's, RS's, the list is long, also independant Flights, ones with four digit numbers and name only flights, hundreds of men.

    This is one of the reasons for Henk Weltings extensive threads on the forum here:
    http://www.skynet.ie/~dan/war/henksthreads.html

    I'm sure someone can advise why it became a policy of the CWGC to do this or maybe it was practice of the Air Ministry to only advise Squadrons.

    There are exceptions to the rule of course and you will find occasional OTu etc casualties listed as such.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default RAF King's Regulation, Para 2349 Regarding Injury or Loss

    [QUOTE=dennis_burke;76266]Hi there, yes its a sadly common practice with most units not of Squadron status. it means that almost all the casualties of training accidents at training units, AFU's, OTU's, BFTS, B&GS's, AGS's, RS's, the list is long, also independant Flights, ones with four digit numbers and name only flights, hundreds of men. QUOTE]

    Hello Dennis, Anne, Colin, Linzee & Rodger

    Although I realise that what I am about to quote, is sadly not the case regarding some Operations Record Books in reality.

    The World War 2 editions of "The King's Regulations and Air Council Instructions for the Royal Air Force" Chapter XXX titled "Correspondence, Publications, Records, Maps, Stationery." paragraph 2349 states regarding the "Operations Record Book" ...

    "Entries should include -"
    "(g) a record of casualties to officers, airmen and any troops or civilians attached (i.e. killed, wounded, etc.)."

    Some ORBs are missing casualty information despite it a requirement laid down in the King's Regulations and I often wonder why the RAF failed to record the injury or death and breached the Regulation in the King's Regulations.

    The A.H.B. have stated to me that they would supply information where the information cannot be found in official documents at The National Archives, or on Flying accident Accident Cards at the RAF Museum.

    Regards Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 18th May 2012 at 14:29. Reason: "Operations"

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    Linzee, you are very kind, wish I was only 30........I have just come out of the corner.........there all night!
    Tony K

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