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Thread: 1651 hcu orb?

  1. #1
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    Default 1651 hcu orb?

    I trying to establish to postings of F/O Helvard, KIA 21 June 1943 while attached to 218 Sqn.

    The 218 Sqn ORB states that the is posted to this squadron from 1651 HCU w.e.f. 13 June 1943.

    Would anyone have access to the 1651 HCUs ORB? Would like to establish a posting date to this unit and possible a reference to the unit he was posted to prior to the HCU.

    Regards

    Mikkel Plannthin
    Britain's Victory, Denmark's Freedom. Danish Volunteers in Allied Air Forces During the Second World War
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    danishww2pilots.dk - a resource on Danish aircrew during the Second World War

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    Hi Mikkel,

    I am very interested to know if you found the information you were looking for. This because I am looking for outgoing postings from 1651 HCU for April 1943.

    Regards,

    Pieter

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    Hi Mikkel,

    I can confirm that the 1651 CU ORB does record F/O Helvard and crew being posted to No.218 Squadron on June 13th. (Ref Air29/612).

    Pieter,

    Please let me know what you are looking for in April 1943.

    Regards

    Steve
    No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian
    No.623 squadron Research

    ~~IN TIME ~~

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    HI, I too have a question about HCU's at Waterbeach. I am helping my wife find information about her late father, Flt Sgt Eric Bates. He flew out of waterbeach, was shot down, and became a POW at Stalag Luft 6 in Lithuania. He subsequently escaped, and his record here gives very little details:-

    He is on this page:-
    http://www.rafcommands.com/Ross/Air%...ery%20B_1.html

    His RAF service number is 1030076

    Guys who have the Group 3 and 514 ORBs say he isn't in those. So he could have been shot down in the few operations undertook by 1651 HCU in 1943, as Stalag Luft VI came into operation. Any feedback would be great. We might have to keep going down the list of all the HCU's which predated 514 to find him.
    Last edited by jer1956; 12th June 2014 at 08:15.

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    I gleaned most of the aircraft for Bomber Command and Coastal Command PoWs and added them at the time so the suggestion is he was not flying with either of these commands at time of loss.

    You say he escaped but since he is listed in the Nov 1944 Red Cross returns it would suggest that this was late 1944/early 1945.

    Six months ago it was suggested a poster asking about their Uncle (1030076 Bates) apply for his service record and PoW Liberation report (if recorded)

    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=670480.0

    What do these say about him?

    Seems like people are making suggestions of units based on the records they have access to but you have not given the accurate data that is open to only close relatives (was he No.38 Group?).

    The service number and PoW record is for Ernest Bates not Eric Bates are you sure this is the same man?



    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 12th June 2014 at 09:55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jer1956 View Post
    HI, I too have a question about HCU's at Waterbeach. I am helping my wife find information about her late father, Flt Sgt Eric Bates. He flew out of waterbeach, was shot down, and became a POW at Stalag Luft 6 in Lithuania. He subsequently escaped, and his record here gives very little details:-

    He is on this page:-
    http://www.rafcommands.com/Ross/Air%...ery%20B_1.html

    His RAF service number is 1030076

    Guys who have the Group 3 and 514 ORBs say he isn't in those. So he could have been shot down in the few operations undertook by 1651 HCU in 1943, as Stalag Luft VI came into operation. Any feedback would be great. We might have to keep going down the list of all the HCU's which predated 514 to find him.
    For RAF Waterbeach:-

    You could try the Station ORBs in AIR 28, you might be lucky as some Station ORBs have a record of some flights.
    AIR 28/889 Waterbeach ORB and
    AIR 28/891 Waterbeach appendices from May 43.
    AIR 28/890 Appendices to Nov 1942.
    If no record of flights, also look in the Waterbeach ORBs to see what units were based at Waterbeach before and on date of flight, as these other Units will likely have their own ORBs. Some accidents / losses / missing were reported through Station Headquarters.

    A "Waterbeach" search of reference "AIR 29" for Units gives:-

    AIR 29/851 RAF 33 Base, Waterbeach Sept 43 to Jul 45
    AIR 29/612 1651 CU (Conversion Unit) Waterbeach in 1943
    AIR 29/614 1665 CU (Conversion Unit) from May 1943 to June 1943 at Waterbeach.
    AIR 29/881 1678 CF (Conversion Flight) and HCU [number of places stated, but period at Waterbeach not stated on catalogue]

    AIR 29/136 2957 Anti-Aircraft Squadron, RAF Regt.
    AIR 29/84 2746 Squadron RAF Regiment, became Anti Aircraft Sqn

    If tracing Units at known aerodrome places, I used to use the "Action Stations" series books 1 to 9 initially, especially the book covering the UK area for the particular RAF Station and Book 10 Supplement and Index. Most main Libraries used to have them.

    But the Station ORBs in AIR 28 ought to note the Units and Squadrons arriving and leaving before and around the date you want.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 13th June 2014 at 19:15.

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    Steve,
    Working on a belated (I planned for a launch yesterday, as the crew was shot down on 21/22 June) update of my websites profile on F/O Helvard.

    I realised that had not thanked you for the information you shared back then. Do you know if the ORB records the date when he was posted to 1651 CU?

    Mikkel
    Britain's Victory, Denmark's Freedom. Danish Volunteers in Allied Air Forces During the Second World War
    fb.me/britainsvictorydenmarksfreedom
    danishww2pilots.dk - a resource on Danish aircrew during the Second World War

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    Hi Mikkel,

    I'm afraid I do not have my 1651 ORB to hand, currently in storage. But my notes on the crew do not have a date they arrived on 1651. From that I deduce that the CU ORB did not record this information.

    Kind regards

    Steve

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    Steve,
    thank you again.

    Mikkel
    Britain's Victory, Denmark's Freedom. Danish Volunteers in Allied Air Forces During the Second World War
    fb.me/britainsvictorydenmarksfreedom
    danishww2pilots.dk - a resource on Danish aircrew during the Second World War

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