Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: Changes in Uniform through training

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chester, UK
    Posts
    35
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Changes in Uniform through training

    Hi Guys
    I have a query regarding the changes in uniform through initial training. I have 2 group photographs of my late father both in uniform with a white band on his cap - one has a white belt as well, the other doesn't. I also have another photo of my father with 3 other chaps, all appear to have the half wing 'role' badges on their jackets, but they do not have rank stripes.

    Bobs training ran as follows;
    11 ITW
    15 EFTS
    (recommended to re-mustering)
    2(o) AFU
    11 OTU
    Would my initial descriptions match up with these training groups in any ways?

    cheers
    Simon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,765
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Simon

    Based on my research to date, the white insert in the cap (denoting aircrew under training) would have been worn throughout training.

    It would have been removed upon successful completion of "trade" training, when the brevets and stripes were issued to aircrew.

    Service dress, war service dress (aircrew suits) and webbing kits changed throughout the war and various combinations were used (which may explain the differences in the photos).

    Are you able to provide timescales for postings, as this may also have a bearing on the differences in the photos.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chester, UK
    Posts
    35
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Pete
    Many thanks for your insight - yes of course the dates would help - it was late last night when I posted this......

    11/4/42 11 ITW
    14/7/42 15 EFTS
    (recommended to re-mustering)
    10/11/42 2(o) AFU
    26/4/43 11 OTU

    links to the training pics are here
    http://lancaster-archive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4744&p=45221#p45221

    and the other picture is here (about halfway down the page)
    http://lancaster-archive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4229&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

    both pages on the Lancaster Archive Forum - the second one requires you to be a member of the forum I think as its in a members only part of the forum

    thanks again

    Simon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    2,210
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Simon
    The white belt that you mention was/?is normal for Station Police(sometimes also for ceremonial) and could have been worn by those on a training course on temporary guard duty for a short period-usually 24 hrs. The photo without stripes but with a flying badge may have been taken immediately after the award of the badge but before the promotion to Sgt took effect. A likely cause would be if the course members were required quickly for operational training and the award of their badges was made without ceremony.The promotion to Sgt for aircrew,although automatic, would still have required formal notification and would have a w.e.f date notified in a letter to those promoted. In post war time the award of my Air Signaller badge was made the day before the promotion to Sgt, although in the more relaxed time of 1956 we were presented with the badges on a formal pass-out parade and were permitted to wear the Sgt's stripes and the brass aircrew Eagle for the parade, but were not permitted to use the Sgt's Mess. All that came when we reached our next posting.
    Regards
    Dick

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,765
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Simon

    Having looked at the photos, I can't really help you establish dates or locations.

    I believe that the belts you refer to in one of the photos formed part of the webbing kit, some of which seemed to have been worn as part of Service Dress on formal occasions during the early years of the war but, for some reason, not in later years (I can't find anything which explains why this was).

    As you say, the photo where the trainees are wearing War Service Dress (Suits, Aircrew) seems to show them with brevets but no stripes, suggesting that they are post "trade" training. I have also noticed that there is something under the brevet (which I have not seen in photos before) .... I don't think it is the pocket button as it is too high.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,663
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default

    Pete T/Simon, et al,
    The Webbing Belt was, I think, designed to be the main part of an Airman's 'offensive' kit.
    At the back it had 2 brass buckles (at 45 degrees to the horizontal) to take the back end of the 'Over The Shoulder Straps'. The front ends of these straps located into (removable) brass buckles on the front of the webbing belt. Half-way up the straps (from the front) were brass clips which secured one's Big Pack. All this was designed to turn your average RAF airman into a military (i.e. infantry) killer! They were dull (camouflage?) coloured.
    Webbing Belts worn for ceremonial (or other) occasions were, almost always, without the front brass attachments. They may, also, have been bereft of the brass buckles at the back. They were blancoed (i.e. whitened) - which seems to negate the 'camouflage' reasons!!
    Your actual RAF Service Police ('Snowdrops' on account of the amount of blanco) did, on some occasions, have blancoed webbing belts (whether the back buckles had been removed I never did find out. One was usually quite thankfull to get out of the Guardroom without a F 252 being filled in!!) They also had blancoed gaiters (and chains, to make their trousers 'fall' properly over the gaiters).
    What we need is A Webbing Expert to declaim on this subject!!!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 18th April 2012 at 15:52.
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Westcountry UK
    Posts
    17
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default R.e Change in service uniforms whist training

    Hello bgizmo

    See your PM box
    Regards Ant

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    866
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    The chap wearing the white webbing belt could be a 'parade' marker. First on parade then the rest of the flight march up and 'dress' to his left.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chester, UK
    Posts
    35
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks for all the thoughts guys - much appreciated. Based on something that was mentioned, so what was the point that rank was awarded (sergeant), was that when they got to OTU?

    Simon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,765
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Simon

    My understanding is that the promotion and the allocation of the brevet coincided with passing-out at "trade" school.

    The point I think that was made earlier was that the formal passing-out parade, where the honours were officially bestowed, may have been delayed / cancelled due to unforeseen war circumstances ... so whilst they may have officially passed-out, they may not have been handed stripes and/or brevets.

    By the way, did you manage to find out what was underneath the brevet in the "gang of four" photo?
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •