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Thread: Crash Landed PRU Spitfire Crete 1942

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    Default Crash Landed PRU Spitfire Crete 1942

    On the LEMB board, there is a picture of a crash landed PRU spitfire on Crete,probably in 1942.
    Here's the link, if anyone can identify

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230782119357

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    Hi Kaki,

    2 PRU lost 3 Spitfires during Sep 42 on sorties to Crete:

    22 Sep 42 - P/O L.L. FORD FTR from a PR to Crete (Spitfire BP883)

    23 Sep 42 - F/L F.B. DAY FTR from a PR to Crete (Spitfire BP435 (serial invalid must be BR435))

    30 Sep 42 - F/O M.E. LENG FTR from a PR of shipping N. of Crete (Spitfire BR411)

    F/L DAY's aircraft can be discounted as the F.540 states he was later spotted in the water by ASR (though he wasn't rescued).

    Source: 2 PRU ORB

    Best Regards

    Andy Fletcher
    Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum

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    Hi Andy,

    Too bad the s/n is, as far as I can tell, undecipherable. No markings on the fuselage,typical for 2 PRU. The top propeller blade is unbent so it must have landed with a dead engine.
    I 'm going to look through some file as I remember reading about a 2 PRU pilot who died recently who was one of the 2 PRU losses over Crete. He was taken POW.

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    Here's your man - 79368 F/L Frank Barton DAY RAFVR.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/2421217/Squadron-Leader-Frank-Day.html

    As Andy said, "In The Drink".

    Col
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 3rd May 2012 at 13:35.

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    Default 2 PRU spitfire Losses

    Well, there seems to be some confusion. In "Fighters over the Desert" both 2 PRU losses are recorded as taking place on September 22,1942. Tony Wood's listing has the two Crete PRU losses as occurring on September 22, the morning one flown by P/O Ford being shot down at 0920 by Uffz Hanns Loffler and the afternoon mission flown by F/L Day shot down at 1520 by Uffz Moycis. Both belonged to 9/JG-27.
    In FOTD the a/c flown by L/L Day and shot down by Uffz Moycis is reported as "....this aircraft crash landing on the island after his attack" Since F/L Day was shot down into the sea, perhaps this airplane is the one flown by P/O Ford
    Last edited by KAKI3152; 4th May 2012 at 03:31. Reason: spelling

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    Hi Kaki,

    I've rechecked the 2 PRU ORB and both the F.540 and F.541 agree on the dates of the losses:

    22 Sep 42 - BP883 (P/O L.L. FORD)
    23 Sep 42 - BR435 (F/L F.B. DAY)
    30 Sep 42 - BR411 (F/O M.E. LENG)

    P/O FORD's take off time from Kilo 8 is given as 07:30 (refuelling at Dekheyla [Dekheila])

    F/L DAY's take off time from Kilo 8 is given as 06:30 (refuelling at Dekheyla [Dekheila]). Presumably the date (23rd) in DAY's obituary for his loss near Crete comes from the family and this ties in with the ORB.

    I've also checked on http://spitfires.ukf.net for the loss dates.

    22 Sep 42 - BP883, agrees with ORB
    23 Sep 42 - BR435, agrees with ORB
    22 Sep 42 - BR411, contredicts ORB but would indicate two 2 PRU losses on this date. However looking through the ORB BR411 is recorded as flying sorties on 22nd, 23rd, 26th, 28th and finally on the 30th. So 22 Sep 42 must be an error.

    According to the ORB 2 PRU flew only one sortie (P/O FORD) to Crete on 22 Sep 42 so the afternoon claim by Uffz MOYCIS wasn't against a 2 PRU aircraft.

    Best Regards

    Andy Fletcher
    Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum

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    Andy,

    Well, this is one of those seeming contradictions that make research such a thrill.
    The probable cause lies in poor record keeping on one side or the other. Prien's history on III/IV/JG-27 also places the two downings on September 22. It's unlikely that Uffz Moycis would have the opportunity to attack any Spitfire except for a PRU machine. F/L Day's obituary clearly states he was attacked by a Bf109[s].
    It's interesting that Uffz Moycis' victory was recorded at 1520.

    There is still that picture of crash landed Spitfire on Crete

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    Hello

    FORD wrote in his PoW questionnaire that he was captured at Suda Bay, Crete, 22/9/42, wounded in the foot.

    I don't know if this may help you...

    Joss

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    Hi Kaki,

    I believe Uffz MOYCIS' claim of 22 Sep 42 was corrected to 25 Sep 42 in Prien's later JFV series, all the other details remain the same except date: 15:20 Spitfire N. Réthymon

    2 PRU did carry out two sorties to Crete on 25 Sep 42, thought the ORB makes no mention of either being intercepted.

    Details for Uffz LÖFFLER's claim of 22 Sep 42 remain the same: 09:13 Spitfire S. of Suda Bay at 8000m. It is therefore almost certain that LÖFFLER was responsible for shooting down P/O FORD.

    There appears to be no corresponding Luftwaffe claim for DAY's Spitfire over Crete on 23 Sep 42. There is a claim for a Spitfire by Uffz Wilhelm SCHEIB 1./JG 77 at 11:17, no location is given but I./JG 77 was based in Sicily at this time. Perhaps he was attacked by the RA.

    Uffz MOYCIS may have been responsible for the loss of F/O LENG on 30 Sep 42. He claimed a Spitfire over Tympaktion [Tympaki] at 09:45

    Joss,

    Would it be possible to get a copy of P/O FORD's POW questionnaire please?

    Best Regards

    Andy Fletcher
    Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum

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    Thanks Andy & Joss,

    Based on all this information, the crashlanded Spitfire IV (probably) belonged to P/O Ford and was taken on September 22. The information on F/L Day has been interesting. I havent bought the Prien JFV series past JFV6, just a little too pricey for me.

    Carlos

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