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Thread: Anson Crews needed 6 AOS Staverton

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    Default Anson Crews needed 6 AOS Staverton

    Hi All,

    Can anyone provide more details on the following Ansons please, either by way of
    crew names, or more accurate details.

    DJ 181
    6 AOS
    STAVERTON
    26/8/42.
    RINDD HILL,STOCKEND WOOD, GLOUCESTER.
    While on cross country navigation exercise, aircraft hit hillside in low cloud. NFD.



    DJ660
    6 AOS
    STAVERTON
    10/3/43
    STOCK END WOOD,GLOUCESTER.
    Struck hillside while descending through low cloud on navigation exercise.

    EF929
    6 OAFU
    STAVERTON
    9/4/44.
    HARESFIELD BEACON,NR STROUD,GLOUCESTER.
    Aircraft hit high ground in low cloud while taking off on a navigation flight.


    Many Thanks
    Regards.
    Dave

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    Dave

    From Wings over Glos

    DJ181 FIHG at Ridd Hill, Stockend Wood, Edge, Painswick, Glos

    Sgt EC Perkins (k); LAC LW Roper; F/Sgt AG Richards & LAC B Cross. The fates of the latter three are not given so presumed not to have been fatalities. Here is a photograph of Perkins: http://members.lycos.co.uk/daveswrecks/hobbies1.html.

    DJ 660 FIHG at approx the same location as the one above.

    Sgt JH Hammond; LAC W Halpern and two others not named. Fates not given, so again presumed not to have been fatalities.

    EF929 Is not listed in WoG but I have it as FHG at Haresfield Beacon, about two miles south east of Moreton Valance airfield. Nothing about the crew on file, sorry.

    Regards

    DaveW
    Last edited by davew; 23rd November 2007 at 09:28. Reason: Punctuation cortrected and double word removed

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    Hi All

    LAC Lawrence William Roper is buried in Gloucester Old Road Cemetery.

    Regards

    Dave M

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    Default Anson Crews Staverton

    Thanks Dave W.

    Odd to see a link to my own website for Perkins, forgot I had him on there, I must be losing it! All other details very much appreciated.

    Also, thanks Dave M, for Roper details.

    Regards.
    Dave.

    PS. Dave W Halpern was killed and I found following on CWGC :

    Name: HALPERN, WOLF
    Initials: W
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Leading Aircraftman (Nav. U/T)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Age: 33
    Date of Death: 10/03/1943
    Service No: 1083278
    Additional information: Son of George and Emily Halpern; husband of Barbara Mary Halpern, of South Kensington London. B.A. (Oxon.).
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: West of church.
    Cemetery: HARESFIELD (ST. PETER) CHURCHYARD
    Last edited by highgroundsman; 23rd November 2007 at 16:31. Reason: Fate of airman previously u/k was found.

  5. #5
    Chris Scott Guest

    Default National Archive vs. MoD

    Hi Chaps,
    Presume you Daves would have consulted Kew's catalogue if you thought it relevant, but I couldn't resist another look at the list of AIB Précis Reports for Ansons available in AVIA 5. Don't know what criteria were used to decide whether to call in the AIB, but one would hope that a "FIHG" accident (as I see you are calling it – today's achronym is "CFIT") would not have been assumed to be crew error without proper investigation.

    26/8/42 (DJ181) would be in AVIA 5/21, but the nearest is DJ184, also in August 1942, nr. South Cerney. [Close, eh?]

    10/3/43 (DJ660) would be in AVIA 5/22, but isn't.

    9/4/44 (EF929) is in a long period for which all the Précis Reports are missing: 20/1/44 - 28/1/45 (AIB Reports W1751 - W2080). *

    Sorry I can't help,
    Chris


    * FOOTNOTE
    mcmillan_p kindly alerted me to the problem of these missing reports in October, on the "Anson NK607..." thread, but I'm repeating it in case any interested parties are not aware of it. I've since been told – by the RAF Air Historical Branch of MoD – that "the deposit of précis and other MoD BoI papers in the National Archive by the predecessors of the AAIB was done without the consent or, as we understand it, knowledge of the MoD. It is not policy that such papers are deposited in the public domain; this policy is compatible with the Freedom of Information Act."
    So now we know...
    Last edited by Chris Scott; 23rd November 2007 at 18:12. Reason: Amended date

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    As far as I unstand the situation AIB were called in when the investigating officer (often the unit engineering officer + a couple of others) thought there was something other than human error behind the accident.

    Usually a CFIT type accident would not have been investigated, it was usually more 'spectactular' accidents, eg where large bits of the a/c fell off or there was a very serious collision that should have been avoided.

    A few example from reports I have copies of or have seen,

    Halifax Mk.II DT578, suspected collision, proved to be CFIT.
    Halifax Mk.II JB926, suspected collision, icing caused loss of control and mainplane break up.
    Spitfire Mk.Vb BL688, high speed loss of control at low level.
    Lancaster Mk.III PB456, structural failure in dive.
    Avian G-EBVZ, ground collision with pedestrian.
    Meteor F. Mk.8 WE904, possible anoxia followed by dive into ground.
    Canberra Mk.6 WT207, mid air explosion.
    ANEC Missel Thrush G-EBRI, CFIT.

    I have been through my file of 1180s and only found a handful marked as having AIB reports, there were quite a few fatal accidents that did not even have a Form 412 listed (which to those who don't know what one is, it the the court or enquiry report form ~15 pages).
    Alan Clark

    Peak District Air Accident Research

    http://www.peakdistrictaircrashes.co.uk/

  7. #7
    Chris Scott Guest

    Default Form 412 - Freedom of Information Act (exemptions)

    Thanks Alan, but I must apologise to highgroundsman for taking his thread off-topic.

    I infer from what you say - and from what RAF Air Historical Branch (Bentley Priory) have told me - that a Form 412 is an RAF document that would exist whether or not the AIB had been called in. Bentley Priory also say, in relation to my request for info. re. Anson NK607, that:

    "...it is not unusual for Board of Inquiry papers not to survive but (they) should point out that, had a copy been found, it would have been subject to various exemptions under the Freedom of Information Act."
    [Note that this relates to an accident on an A/C which has not been in RAF service since the 1960s (?). Just imagine if today you had asked to see a Form 412 relating to - say - a 1980 Puma accident...]

    Re. the decision to call in the AIB/AAIB, I guess they are always called in for civil incidents/accidents. But what you say in relation to the RAF makes absolute sense, particularly in WW2.

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