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Thread: Out of curiosity

  1. #1
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    Default Out of curiosity

    Hi guys

    If aircrew, for one reason or another, found themselves reduced to the ranks, were they entitled to wear their brevet and any awards/decorations they may have gained?

    If aircrew, for one reason or another, decided to transfer to the army - commissioned or otherwise - were they entitled to wear their brevet and any awards/decorations they may have gained?

    And did it happen?

    Cheers
    Brian

    PS from personal experience, when I was in the Boy Scouts I almost lost my patrol leader status when finding out that Girl Guides were girls!
    Last edited by brian; 6th May 2012 at 15:37.

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    Default

    In the early 50's there was reputed to have been a Corporal Drill Instructor at Hednesford who wore a Pilot's Brevet (I have to say, I never actually saw him!).
    In the late 60's the SWO at HQ 3 Grp/RAF Mildenhall had two rows of "green-grocery" and a Pilot's brevet (and I saw that!)! The name Archer seems to come back to me from the mists of time. Whether his 'green-grocery' was DFM/AFM, or DFC/AFC (or a combination), I regret that at the time I took little notice because I did not realise that I would be asked questions about it 45 years later!!!
    But once you've earned it you can continue to display it (in the RAF). What the Pongo's do about it is a mystery! - like most things Army-orientated.
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default

    Thanks Peter

    Most interesting.

    Cheers
    Brian

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    Default

    Hi Brian

    As Peter said once earned, the flying badge cannot be removed, regardless of demotions etc.

    However, the exception to this is if the holder commits some serious breach of flying discipline the badge can be lost as part of his/her sentence. This even extends to failing to complete the six month probationary period on joining an operational squadron by failing to become 'combat ready', I believe.

    I have seen photos of Army personnel wearing RAF badges awarded during WW1 and prior to WW2 many Army Co-operation pilots were Army officers seconded so I assume they continued to wear their badges on returning to Army duties.

    Malcolm
    Last edited by malcolm_raf; 6th May 2012 at 16:38. Reason: typo

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    During the war, those aircrew who were declared LMF would have their rank and wings/brevet removed, often in public, i.e. in front of the entire Squadron on parade. The individuals would be reduced to AC2 and were often employed in menial tasks and were quickly moved off the Squadron.

    In modern times I have seen ex RAF personnel who have moved to the Army wearing their RAF wings; I know of one ex pilot who left the RAF to fly for Qantas and joined the TA as a Forward Air Controller and was commissioned into the Yeomanry but still wore his RAF wings, I've also seen an ex RN Submariner who transfered to the Army wearing his dolphins.

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    Hi guys

    ["During the war, those aircrew who were declared LMF would have their rank and wings/brevet removed, often in public, i.e. in front of the entire Squadron on parade. The individuals would be reduced to AC2 and were often employed in menial tasks and were quickly moved off the Squadron."]

    I find this hard to accept. Is there hard evidence?

    Cheers
    Brian

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    Hi Brian

    Plenty of memoirs make mention of this practice and there was a unit that dealt with those declared as such, I believe it was in or near Sheffield.

    Malcolm

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    The question I would have about the practice is not the stripping, demotion and reposting, but that it was done in public before the whole squadron on parade. I have not encountered this aspect in my reading of various histories and memoires. Such an action would seem to have a rather negative effect, in promoting sympathy for the sufferer.

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    Hi Brian,

    I am surprised no one has picked up on this yet but ref your PS at the start of this thread, would you like to expand on it ?

    " PS from personal experience, when I was in the Boy Scouts I almost lost my patrol leader status when finding out that Girl Guides were girls! "

    Regards,

    Ian

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    Yeah, go on Brian. Spill the beans!

    : )

    Ian

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