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Thread: Trade Groups (1943/1945)

  1. #1
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    Default Trade Groups (1943/1945)

    I am sure that I have seen a complete listing of RAF Ground Trades and their respective Groups during my research but I am not able to find it in a search anymore. Has anyone got any pointers?

    As a follow up, how many times did the listing change during the war?. I think there was a 1940 version but not sure how long that one remained in force.

    Finally, could you progress from AC2 through AC1 to LAC in all trades or did some trades restrict how far you could progress?

    Any help would be appreciated

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  2. #2
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    Trade groups were constantly changed as the war progressed.

    Equipment and skills change and so to the trades just look at the airframe materials altering from 1939 to 1945.

    Now consider engines and radio/radar equipment.

    Even the admin work altered.

    AMO were the vehicle for trades transferred or declared obsolete.

    Rather than consider specific trades it is easier to look at which trade group they were in at any given time.

    Group I
    Skilled Trades

    Group II
    Slightly less skilled

    Group III
    Balloons

    Group IV
    Mainly Clerks

    Group V
    Mainly Aircrafthands

    Group M
    Medical etc

    As to Reclassification
    ACH goes to AC1 in 9 months (done by records). CO may make up to LAC but must not have more than 20%

    Trainees may pass out AC1 and even LAC

    PAC operator was Group III and under AMO A.348/43 declared obsolete as of 3/12/42. As you can see the airman Barb is talking about was initially a Group V so as I keep saying it is unlikely he was actually a PAC operator rather a spare bod trained under Group V who was assigned to a unit that used to operate PAC equipment and described as PAC for admin purposes.

    The trade did not exist in 1943 so the entry is an error.

    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Ross

    Thanks for the feedback; I was trying to find the listing again to increase my general understanding of ground trades, as my curiousity was triggered by the PAC Operator scenario.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    In best Blue Peter fashion "here is one I prepared earlier"

    I have not posted this before because I was sick of the parasites that cut and paste without credit.

    I ask that anyone who uses it remember where they got it from and credits accordingly.

    The trade names snapshot is originally in spreadsheet format cut and paste to get back to that format to view.

    Ross

    Trade Name 1919 1938 1942 1944
    Acetylene welder Yes Group II Group II Group II
    Aerial erector No No No Group II
    Air bombing instructor No No No Group I
    Air Gunner No Aircrew Aircrew No
    Air gunnery instructor No No No Group III
    Air Observer No Aircrew Aircrew No
    Aircrafthand No Group V Group V Group V
    Aircrafthand (u/t) No Group V Group V Group V
    Airfield controller No No No Group I
    Airman Pilot No Aircrew Aircrew No
    Architectural draughtsman No No No Group I
    Armament assistant No No No Group V
    Armoured car crew No Group II Group II Group II
    Armourer Yes No No Group II
    Armourer (bomb disposal) No No No Group II
    Armourer (bombs) No Group II Group II No
    Armourer (guns) No Group II Group II No
    Assistant Armourer Yes No No No
    Ballon rigger/fabric worker No Group III Group III No
    Balloon fabric worker No Group III Group III No
    Balloon operator No Group II Group II Group II
    Balloon rigger No Group III Group III No
    Barber No Group V Group V Group V
    Batman Yes Group V Group V Group V
    Blacksmith Yes Group II Group II Group II
    Blacksmith and Welder No Group I Group I Group I
    Blacksmith's striker Yes No No No
    Boat Builder Yes No No No
    Bricklayer No Group II Group II Group II
    Butcher Yes No No No
    C W fighter No No No Group V
    Camera repairer Yes No No No
    Camouflage supervisor No No No Group II
    Carpenter Yes Group II Group II Group I/Group II
    Carpenter (boat builder) No No No Group I
    Caterer Yes No No No
    Chiropodist No No No Group M
    Civil engineering assistant No No No Group I
    Clerk of Works No No No Group I
    Clerk, accounting No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Clerk, equipment and accounting No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Clerk, General Yes No No No
    Clerk, general duties No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Clerk, pay Yes No No No
    Clerk, pay accounting No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Clerk, provisioning No No No Group IV
    Clerk, shorthand typist Yes No No No
    Clerk, signals No No No Group IV
    Clerk, special duties No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Clerk, stores Yes No No No
    Compass adjuster No No No Group I
    Concreter No Group III Group III Group III
    Cook Yes No No Group III
    Cook and Butcher No Group III Group III No
    Coppersmith Yes Group II Group II Group II
    Coppersmith and Sheet Metal Worker No Group I Group I Group I
    Coppersmith's mate Yes No No No
    Deckhand Yes No No No
    Dental clerk orderly No Group M Group M Group M
    Dental mechanic No Group M Group M Group M
    Dental orderly u/t No Group M Group M Group M
    Dispenser No Group M Group M Group M
    Drainlayer No Group III Group III Group III
    Draughtsman Yes Group I Group I Group I
    Draughtsman (mechanical) No No No Group I
    Driller No No No Group II
    Driver Mechanical Transport No Group V Group V Group V
    Driver, Motor Boat Yes No No No
    Driver, Petrol Yes No No No
    Driver, Steam Yes No No No
    Driver, winch (balloon) No Group III Group III No
    Duty Pilot No Group I Group I No
    Electrician Yes No No No
    Electrician Grade II No Group II Group II Group II
    Electrician Wireman No Group II Group II No
    Electrician Works Grade I No No No Group I
    Electrician Works Grade II No No No Group II
    Electrician, Grade I No Group I Group I Group I
    Embarkation assistant No No No Group III
    Engine Driver (Fitter) No Group I Group I No
    Equipment assistant No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Fabric worker Yes Group III Group III Group III
    Fire fighter No No No Group V
    Fitter (armourer) No No No Group I
    Fitter (Armourer, bombs) No Group I Group I No
    Fitter (Armourer, guns) No Group I Group I No
    Fitter (general) No No No Group I
    Fitter (Marine) No Group I Group I Group I
    Fitter (stationary engine) No No No Group I
    Fitter (Torpedo) No Group I Group I No
    Fitter I No Group I Group I Group I
    Fitter II (Airframe) No Group I Group I Group I
    Fitter II (Engine) No Group I Group I Group I
    Fitter, Aero Engine Yes Group I Group I No
    Fitter, General Yes No No No
    Fitter, Jig and tool maker Yes No No No
    Fitter, Mechanical Transport Yes Group I Group I Group I
    Flight mechanic (airframe) No Group II Group II Group II
    Flight mechanic (engine) No Group II Group II Group II
    Flying Control assistant No No No Group V
    Foreman of Trades No No No Group II
    Grinder No Group II Group II Group II
    Ground Gunner No Group V Group V No
    Ground Observer No Group V Group V Group V
    Groundsman No Group V Group V Group V
    Gunner No No No Group V
    High Speed Telegraphist No No No Group I
    Hospital orderly Yes No No No
    Hydrogen Worker Yes Group III Group III Group II/Group III
    Instrument maker No Group I Group I Group I
    Instrument Repairer Yes No No No
    Instrument Repairer, Grade I No Group I Group I Group I
    Instrument repairer, Grade II No No No Group II
    Interpreter (technical) No No No Group II
    Kite Balloon telephonist Yes No No No
    Laboratory assistant No Group M Group M Group M
    Labourer Yes No No No
    Link trainer instructor No Group I Group I Group I
    Link trainer instructor (Visual) No Group I Group I No
    Machine -tool setter and operator No Group I Group I Group I
    Machine-gun instructor No Group V Group V No
    Machinist Yes No No No
    Magneto Repairer Yes No No No
    Maintenance assistant No Group V Group V Group V
    Masseur No Group M Group M Group M
    Mechanic (stationary engine) No No No Group II
    Mechanic Motor Transport No Group II Group II Group II
    Medical orderly u/t No Group M Group M Group M
    Mental nursing orderly No Group M Group M Group M
    Messing Duties No Group V Group V No
    Metal Rigger No Group I Group I No
    Metal worker No Group I Group I No
    Meteorologist No Group II Group II Group II
    Miller No Group II Group II Group II
    Millwright Yes No No No
    Motor boat coxswain Yes No No No
    Motor boat crew No Group III Group III Group III
    Motor body builder Yes No No No
    Motor cyclist Yes Group V Group V Group V
    Moulder Yes No No Group I
    Musician No Group V Group V Group V
    Navigation instructor No No No Group I
    Nursing orderly No Group M Group M Group M
    Operating room assistant No Group M Group M Group M
    Optician orderly No No No Group M
    PAC operator No Group III Group III No
    Packer Yes No No Group V
    Packer's mate Yes No No No
    Painter Yes No No No
    Parachute Packer No Group V Group V No
    Parachute repairer No Group III Group III No
    Pattern maker Yes No No No
    Pattern maker No No No Group I
    Pattern maker (architectural) No Group II Group II Group II
    Photographer Yes Group II Group II Group II
    Physical training instructor No Group V Group V Group V
    Pigeon keepers No Group V Group V No
    Plant operator No No No Group II
    Plumber No Group II Group II Group II
    Propeller maker Yes No No No
    Quarryman No No No Group II
    Radar mechanic No No No Group I
    Radio Mechanic No Group I Group I No
    Radio Operator No Group II Group II Group II
    Radio Operator (Air) No Aircrew Aircrew No
    Radio Telephony operator No Group IV Group IV Group II/Group IV
    Radiographer No Group M Group M Group M
    RAF Police No No No Group V
    Rigger, aeroplane Yes No No No
    Rigger, airship Yes No No No
    Safety equipment assistant No No No Group III
    Safety equipment operator No No No Group II
    Sanitary assistant No Group M Group M Group M
    Seaplane wader Yes No No No
    Service police No Group V Group V No
    Sheet metal worker No Group II Group II Group II
    Shoemaker Yes Group III Group III Group III
    Special treatment orderly No Group M Group M Group M
    Station Police No No No Group V
    Steel erector No Group II Group II Group II
    Tailor Yes Group III Group III Group III
    Telephone Operator Yes Group V Group V No
    Telephonist No No No Group III
    Teleprinter operator No Group IV Group IV Group IV
    Tinsmith and sheet metal worker Yes No No No
    Torpedoman No Group V Group V No
    Trained nurse No Group M Group M Group M
    Turner No Group II Group II Group II
    Turner Yes No No No
    Upholster Yes No No No
    Vulcaniser Yes No No Group V
    Winch driver and fitter Yes No No No
    Wireless and electrical mechanic No Group I Group I Group I
    Wireless mechanic Yes Group I Group I Group I
    Wireless operator Yes Group II Group II Group II
    Wireless Operator (Air) No Aircrew Aircrew No
    Wireless operator mechanic No Group I Group I Group I
    Works hand No No No Group V
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  5. #5
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    Ross

    Absolutely brilliant; thanks for your time and effort.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  6. #6
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    And just to concur with Ross' statement that Trade Groups were constantly changing, when I did my Nat Svc in the early 50's as a Met Man I was in Trade Group 22 - "RAF Police Dog Handlers, RAF Bandsmen, and Met Assistants"! A motley crew indeed!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  7. #7
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    Does anyone know if there is a listing which shows the medical grades needed for each of the trades in Ross's listing?

    I am particularly interested to know which trades utilised Medical Grade III, as a partial listing I have suggests that even clerks had to be Grade II.

    Any thoughts would be most welcome.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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