Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Loss of 10 Sqn Halifax JD211 15/16 July 1943

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    430
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Loss of 10 Sqn Halifax JD211 15/16 July 1943

    Dear all,

    May I draw your attention to another unsolved incident in the night airwar that took place during the Montbéliard raid of 15-16 July 1943.

    According to a Gendarmerie report and to local witnesses on the ground, at around 01.00 hrs, a Halifax collided with a night fighter over Besancon. The Nachtjäger has been identified as a Do217 N-1 of 5./NJG4 and flown by Uffz. Prinz. The Halifax, possibly JD211 of 10 Squadron, which is officially posted missing without trace, plunged into the centre of the Besancon railway station, where it caused severe damage. The Nachtjäger crashed some 500 metres further away and completely disintegrated on impact. Uffz. Prinz and his crew were all killed.

    Who can tell me if the identity of the Halifax is, indeed, JD211 of 10 Squadron?

    Any help much appreciated!

    Cheers, Theo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California USA
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    As an aside I am interested in this situation where, if the bomber in question was JD211, a crash with witness would be officially lost without trace? Maybe its unusual but could there be known crash sites with wreakage however all crew are lost without trace? My interest is HR732 which we believe crashed over land however all crew LWT and no crash site.

    Cheers
    Rodger

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default JD211 of 10 Squadron

    Quote Originally Posted by Theo Boiten View Post
    Dear all,

    May I draw your attention to another unsolved incident in the night airwar that took place during the Montbéliard raid of 15-16 July 1943.

    According to a Gendarmerie report and to local witnesses on the ground, at around 01.00 hrs, a Halifax collided with a night fighter over Besancon. The Nachtjäger has been identified as a Do217 N-1 of 5./NJG4 and flown by Uffz. Prinz. The Halifax, possibly JD211 of 10 Squadron, which is officially posted missing without trace, plunged into the centre of the Besancon railway station, where it caused severe damage. The Nachtjäger crashed some 500 metres further away and completely disintegrated on impact. Uffz. Prinz and his crew were all killed.

    Who can tell me if the identity of the Halifax is, indeed, JD211 of 10 Squadron?

    Any help much appreciated!

    Cheers, Theo
    Hi Theo,
    I am a nephew of WHR Clark who was a rear gunner on JD211. I am nearly at the end of two years of research into this crash and I believe that I have enough evidence to be 99.9% positive that the Halifax bomber that crashed into the main railway station at Besancon was indeed JD211. I have French and German documented evidence, together with paper and book cross references and indeed an eye witness statement from a man who said he was a ten year old boy at the time of the crash and not only witnessed the events of that night but also had pictures of the aftermath. I am intending to go to Besancon in the spring and take my 88 year old dad, brother to my dead uncle. There is a grave in the Cemetery du Saint Claude that reads " Two Unnamed RAF Airmen 15/16th July 1943 World War 11. What is your interest in this plane? Are you a relative of one of the airmen? What research information do you have?
    I look forward to your reply.
    Many thanks
    Andy Clark
    Last edited by CLARKA8; 1st January 2013 at 20:52. Reason: not finished message

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    430
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Andy,

    Cheers & thanks for your interesting posting. I have researched this case for my forthcoming book, the Nachtjagd War Diaries 2nd edition, due out in 4 volumes in the UK in 2015. This is what I have:

    According to a Gendarmerie report and to local witnesses on the ground, at around 01.00 hrs, a Halifax collided with a night fighter over Besancon. The Nachtjäger has been identified as a Do217 N-1 of 5./NJG4 flown by Uffz. Prinz. The Halifax plunged into the centre of the Besancon railway station, where it caused severe damage. The Nachtjäger crashed some 500 metres further away, near a WWI monument and completely disintegrated on impact. Uffz. Prinz and his crew were all killed. Although the Halifax crew are officially posted missing without trace, two graves with unknown British airmen can be found at the Saint Claude de Besancon cemetery.

    These are the German claims details:

    Uffz. Heinrich Prinz 5./NJG4 Stirling Besancon: 3.000 m. 01.36

    I would be interested if you have any additions/corrections to this, and also if you have a photo of the crew and of the Halifax. You can contact me by PM if you wish.

    Cheers, Theo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Eric T Cooke/Cook Crew of Halifax JD211.

    HI Andy

    Perhaps you could get back in touch with myself and my father , my great uncle was Eric T Cook and was the flight engineer on the Halifax. We have only found out after all these years the truth in relation to his demise and would love to swap any information with you .

    Let me know

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default bomber JD211

    Quote Originally Posted by philipjamescook View Post
    HI Andy

    Perhaps you could get back in touch with myself and my father , my great uncle was Eric T Cook and was the flight engineer on the Halifax. We have only found out after all these years the truth in relation to his demise and would love to swap any information with you .

    Let me know
    Hi Philip
    Sorry for the delay in replying only just read your reply.
    If you want to email me on CLARKA8@SKY.COM with a contact number i will ring you immediately. I am going to Besancon with my father on June 25th 2013 and have arranged to meet a man who was a ten year old boy when the Halifax crashed and witnessed the tragedy. He has photos.
    Eagerly await your reply
    Andy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Information regarding Uffz. Heinrich Prinz

    Dear Theo Boiten,

    Via pure coincidence I stumbled across the Blog concerning the events of the 15/16th July 1943 Besancon crash. It happens to be that my Great Uncle is the above named Pilot Heinrich Prinz. After initial research my father and I found out that the crash site of the Do 217 was at La Barre, which is at approx. 30 kilometers southwest of Besancon. In July of 2013 we went to La Barre inorder to sustain some more information about the crash, and by chance met an elderly French man, who was able to pinpoint the exact crash location. Further Research by an individual named Dan Gilberti only seemed to manifest this conclusion. We would be extremely grateful if you could provide us with more detailed insights into your findings.

    Looking Forward to hear from you,

    Kind Regards,

    Moritz and Elmar Prinz

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,507
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts

    Default

    Just a note folks, try not reply with quote all the time, just repeating text for no reason
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?9289-Use-of-Quote-Function
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    430
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Dear Moritz and Elmar Prinz,

    I would be happy to discuss this further with you, please contact me on my private email, which I will send you by PM.

    Cheers Theo

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default ZA-Y

    Sorry I can't help more Theo but JD211 I believe was ZA-Y 'Yorker' my father serviced her, she had a short life and my father cannot remember the crew.

    Chris Simmonds

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •