Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Pensacola, Florida, USA - 27-9-1943

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Zelhem, Netherlands.
    Posts
    6,313
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Pensacola, Florida, USA - 27-9-1943

    LAC John M. MORSMAN - 1801799 was killed on active service and lies buried in the Pensacola Cem. This may have been a flying incident but so many aircraft types were used at Pensacola.
    Who may help me out to find a matching aircraft type/serial number.
    Regards and thanks.
    Henk.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    316
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    According to a post on the PBY forum now unaivalable, but still in Google cache, he was killed in the following circunstances:

    Post by Frederic A. Jaques
    "I was an RAF cadet at Pensacola and on the night of Sept 27, 1943 we crashed on Fort Barabcas beach in PBY5A 08342. Three men were killed, LAC John Morsman (RAF) and two US Navy mechanics. The Instructor was Lt. Jg Carl Horton who was at the controls at the time and I was in the copilot's seat. It was about 9:30 at night and Horton overshot the water and crashed on the beach. The plane caught fire and was destroyed. You can reach me at exraf557@sbcglobal.net"

    Source:
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FXrUZo5U3d4J:www.pby.com/webmessages.nsf/3a5221864e893a698825651b000bb474/5b7e446d7990326088256721000fff05%3FNavigate%26To%3 DNext+&cd=11&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr

    This crash is confirmed by the following:
    "Incidentally, I've just been in contact with a British chap living in the USA, Frederic A. "Deric" Jaques who was an RAF cadet undergoing PBY training with VN8D8-A at Pensacola in 1943 and flew in both PBYs at the Naval Aviation Museum, BuNo. 08317 and s/n FP216. His flying career came to a sudden end on 27Sep43 when PBY-5 BuNo. 08342 crashed at Fort Barrancas Beach, Pensacola Bay. Deric was badly burnt and spent 21 months at the Bethesda Naval Hospital where he had no less than 14 plastic surgery operations."

    Source:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PBY/message/20065

    And by the following, giving the name of the other survivor:

    "Comments: I am an ex-Royal Air Firce cadet who trained with the USN at Grose Ile and Pensacola. On my last training flight- a night flight, - on Sept 27th 1943 we had an emergency and in trying to land my instructor overshot the water and hit the beach at Ft. Barancas. Three were killed and only Lt. Jg. Horton and myself, RAF Cadet Frederic A. Jaques, survived. I would appreciate any information anyone may have with regard to that night. I now live in Novi, Michigan."
    Source: http://www.pbymf.org/gb5.html

    So far all of this is coming from the same man, Mr Jaques, but http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/thirdseries1.html confirm the serial and crash location, and the 3 KIA.

    The book "Aircraft Accidents in Florida" by Bob Widner has nothing more than Joe Baugher on this crash.

    As it is a Navy loss, and not an Army one, I have less ideas to find more details (especially the book on fatal USAAF accidents by Mr Mireles do not cover the Navy losses).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    316
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    By the way, the man in the link below was probably killed in the same accident:
    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Edwards&GSiman=1&GScnty=785&GR id=16158709&

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Zelhem, Netherlands.
    Posts
    6,313
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Wow Laurent, that was quite a lot of info and do hope your fingers won't be tendered from typing. A pity that a link in a thread on Ross' RAF Commands is not marked in blue like in TOCH an one just needs to click on the link rather than typing the whole number and the risk missing a character.
    Thanks and regards,
    Henk.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,864
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 80 Times in 73 Posts

    Default

    You could try cut and paste or if you have Google toolbar installed highlight the text and it appears in the toolbar search and you can search

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woking, Surrey
    Posts
    544
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Henk,

    Hope your ok.

    Having had the need to research both Canadian and USA casualties, l can tell you that the guys over the water have a wealth of knowledge not limited by storage space and are very happy to assist so give them a try. Likely to be newspaper cuttings on this accident.

    If you get stuck on this, let me know and l will take this up for you.

    Regards,

    Nick

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Zelhem, Netherlands.
    Posts
    6,313
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Nick for your kindness to offer help. But time is running out........Will knock on your door just in case..
    Regards,
    Henk.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,518
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts

    Default

    Ancestry.com have the Florida death index online but almost uselessly it only lists by year and registration county.

    So, all I can really say is Morsman and Wayne Lee Edwards are both in the same county, Escambia, at time of death.

    Why the American's can't put together one simple database to properly commemorate all their war dead.....
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,661
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default

    Denniss,
    Because the Americans think that their country will lose face if it adopts the (now) normal international standards (proper English, metric measurements, date/time formats, etc, etc,). They are worse than many Far Eastern countries about 'losing face' (and I've got many rellies in the N American continent!). Regret we're going to have to live with it!
    Rgds
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default John (Jack) Morsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Henk Welting View Post
    Thanks Nick for your kindness to offer help. But time is running out........Will knock on your door just in case..
    Regards,
    Henk.
    I just came across this site and hope I'm not too late to assist. I am Deric Jaques, the other RAF cadet in the crash of the PBY at Pensacola in September, 1943. If you are still looking for info. please contact me at exraf557@att.net.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •