Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: 1180 Accident Record Card (Lancaster ME334)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,764
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default 1180 Accident Record Card (Lancaster ME334)

    Could anyone tell me:

    Firstly, would a Form 1180 Accident Record Card have been produced for the loss of Lancaster ME334 over Bonn on 4th February 1945?

    Secondly, is the Form 1180 the same as the Bomber Command Loss Card?

    The reason I am asking is that I have a copy of the loss card for Lancaster ME334 but was wondering if I would gain any further information about the aircraft / crew / loss by obtaining a copy of the 1180 (presumably from RAF Hendon).

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Regards

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteT; 11th July 2012 at 12:35.
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,385
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    Hello Pete,

    I can't answer your first question for sure, for I've already found Form 1180 (accident cards) from BC losses which occured during operations. The cause of the loss was obviously an accident, but it was during ops, and on the Continent, over liberated country...

    For your second question, Form 1180 and Bomber command loss card are definitively different documents.

    The form 1180 usually only gives the name of the pilot / captain (pupil and instructor if that's the case) and the number of aircrew members / casualties. The Loss card lists the full crew.

    You never know, so you can always try your luck with RAF Museum Hendon.

    Joss

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,116
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Joss is right, the 1180 and the BC Loss Cards are entirely different documents.

    Some operational losses where enemy action is not the prime cause or is suspected not to be the prime cause, are recorded on 1180s. So, for example, a Dakota dropping supplies behind enemy lines in Burma which crashes onto the DZ when an engine fails will have an 1180 raised. If the same aircraft had been attacked by a Jap fighter and shot down over the DZ, there would be no 1180.

    I am at the RAF Museum tomorrow (12 July) and will be up to my neck in 1180s for 1943. I have written myself a little note to look at the microfilm for Lancasters Feb 1945, before I get carried away with my own selfish stuff. If I can read my own note in the cold, sober light of day I'll tell you the result idc.

    Colin Cummings

    PS If there is an 1180, do you want me to copy it?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,764
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Thank you all for your responses.

    If you are there tomorrow Colin, and you can read your note, and you can find the loss card for ME334, then we would love a copy (thank you for your kind offer).

    I would ask the museum myself, but they have been helping us out over the last few weeks with numerous other requests, so I probably ought to give them a break.

    I have to reiterate that they are absolutely brilliant ..... so can you pass on my thanks to Gordon and the rest of the team there.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Caerdydd, Cymru
    Posts
    633
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Pete,

    From Air14/3463 (Summary of Aircraft Lost on Night Operations) for February 1945 there is an entry for ME334 stating the loss was "Estimated Flak". As these reports were in part compiled from the debriefs of returning crews, it might suggest that someone in another aircraft witnessed the loss of the aircraft. Not much I know, but every little helps...

    If Colin can't get the Loss Card for you tomorrow, let me know and I'll run a copy off for you when I go to the library with my fiches early next week.

    Iechy da :-)

    Greg
    "You can take the boy out of Wales,
    But you can't take Wales out of the boy!!"

    Greg Harrison
    100 Squadron and 100 Squadron Association Historian
    100 Squadron Researcher 1917 - present day
    1 Group Researcher 1940 - 1945

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,764
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Greg

    Thanks for the information and the offer. I would be interested in a copy of the relevant Air14/3463 entry if you have got it.

    We have evidence that ME334 was shot down by flak (with information from other crews and German sources); I don't know whether this means that there will not be an accident record card.

    Anyway, I will keep you posted on progress.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,116
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    HORRIBLE FAILURE!!!!!

    As promised I looked at the Forms 1180 and there was nothing for your particular aircraft. Quite a few where the loss or damage took place as a result of operations - including one poor s?d who had a load of Incendaries poured on him - that'll teach him not to fly below the briefed height and stick to his ETA!!

    Sorry

    Colin Cummings

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,764
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Default

    Colin

    No need to be sorry; your efforts are much appreciated.

    Thank you so much for trying.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Caerdydd, Cymru
    Posts
    633
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hiya Pete - copy of the entry is no problem buddy. Drop me your address in a PM and I'll get it off in the post to you :-)

    All the best as always,

    Greg
    "You can take the boy out of Wales,
    But you can't take Wales out of the boy!!"

    Greg Harrison
    100 Squadron and 100 Squadron Association Historian
    100 Squadron Researcher 1917 - present day
    1 Group Researcher 1940 - 1945

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Caerdydd, Cymru
    Posts
    633
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Pete, there may not have been an 1180 Accident Card, but there is a Loss Card and I'm sat looking at it as I type. I'll pop a copy of that in the envelope too buddy :-)
    "You can take the boy out of Wales,
    But you can't take Wales out of the boy!!"

    Greg Harrison
    100 Squadron and 100 Squadron Association Historian
    100 Squadron Researcher 1917 - present day
    1 Group Researcher 1940 - 1945

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •