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Thread: Memorial page to Anson L9149 but we have some queries and confusions

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    Default Memorial page to Anson L9149 but we have some queries and confusions

    Hi there

    At Ystragynlais Info we have created a large, and growing, history and heritage section, which we expanded last month to include the aircraft crash sites in the Brecon Beacons. Significant among these was the Anson L9149 which crashed on January 17th 1939. Our page is here:-
    http://www.ystradgynlais.info/anson-l9149.html

    We have taken information from a variety of sources, including the memorial stone in the local churchyard, the local newspaper, the Brecon Beacons National Parks leaflet, and the excerpt from Flight magazine, which I initially found through this website, but traced back to an online PDF to further attribution.

    However, some of the information appears either contradictory, or at best incomplete. The plaque in the local churchyard is from the Southampton Training Aviation Company, and the BBNP leaflet describes the home unit as Hamble, presumably an RAF base near Southampton. However, the information from Flight has No. 9 Elementary and Reserve Flying Training School, Ansty, Coventry.

    We were hoping that someone would be able to reconcile this information for us? Thank you for any help you can give.

    Ystradgynlais Info is a not-for-profit community website, run and owned by Ystradgynlais Volunteer Centre, and receives no funding other than what we can raise ourselves.

    Best Regards
    Jon Davies

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    Default Memorial page to Anson L9149 but we have some queries and confusions

    Greywolf,
    I cannot give a definitive answer but this may help.

    The Air-Britain 'Anson File' gives... "L9149; 9 ERFTS; Crashed in deteriorating weather into mountain at Bannau Bryceiniog, Ystradgynlais, 14 m. NE of Swansea 17.1.39."

    The Elementary and Reserve Flying Training Schools were operated by civilian contractors to the Air Ministry. Often this meant a local flying club. No. 9 ERFTS at Ansty was operated by Air Service Training whose main base for many years was at Hamble. I suspect that the Southampton Training Aviation Company may have been a subsidiary of Air Service Training or connected to it in some other way.
    Hope this helps, Tony Broadhurst

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    The Times Jan 19th 1939 says it was from the "Reserve Flying Training School, Ansty, Coventry"

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    I have spent some time this afternoon trying to see if I can help out with this, but not much luck I'm afraid..

    I have searched high and low for the Southampton Training Aviation Company but have not been able to find any references to it other than on the plaque and in the relevant section on the coflein site http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/507019/details/AVRO+ANSON+I+L9149/

    There are a couple of sites relating to the history of Hamble, so I was wondering whether it was worth you contacting the relevant webmasters to see if they have come across this company.

    As an aside, the more I think about it, the stranger the name sounds, as you would think they would have been called Southampton Aviation Training Company not Southampton Training Aviation Company (but I can't find that name either)

    I also note that there is no mention of L9149 on any of the Hamble site listings relating to aircraft "lost from Hamble" suggesting that it was an Ansty based aircraft rather than Hamble based.

    Regards

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteT; 16th August 2012 at 16:29.
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    The incident and the crew are given in the following page from the Flight archive.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1939/1939%20-%200213.html?search=ansty

    Ansty was the base for the aircraft.

    Problems in providing enough elementary training facilities for the expanding aircrew meant civil schools being used and moved to suit the requirements.

    Np.6 AOS was initially Martin's School of Air Navigation at Shoreham but was moved lock stock and barrel to Staverton in May 1939 and renamed Airwork Civil School of Air Navigation so I see no problems with a move from Southampton to Ansty for this unit.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Default Memorial page to Anson L9149 but we have some queries and confusions

    Greywolf,
    I have just had a further look at ”Flying Training and Support Units since 1912” and all the ERFTS seemed to be all been operated by civil contractors - not all of which were necessarily local. For instance, No.25 ERFTS formed at Grimsby in June in 1938 was operated by the Herts and Essex Aero Club. I had assumed it was operated by the local flying club but it seems not.
    Today Air Service Training is mainly known for the flying school which operates out Perth Airport, but during WW.2 its services were rather more diverse. The company history looks a little complicated- but is what I have found.
    No. 3 Elementary & Reserve Flying Training School was formed in 1935 from the Reserve School which had opened in July 1923 at Whitley by Armstrong Whitworth near Newcastle. In fact when the company’s board acquired the Whitley site in 1920 one of their first actions was to form a flying school there and in 1923 this became one of the RAF Reserve Schools. In February 1931 Armstrong-Whitworth formed Air Service Training Ltd. to operate the school which moved to Hamble in April and was re-designated No. 3 Elementary Flying Training School in September 1939.
    No.9 Elementary & Reserve Flying Training School was formed at Ansty in January 1936. During the same period Armstrong Whitworth was opening its new factory at Baginton about 6 miles away and so it should not be any surprise that the school at Ansty was operated by A-W’s subsidiary, Air Service Training Ltd. The School was re-designated No. 9 EFTS in September 1939.
    AST also operated two aircraft repair factories at Hamble and Exeter as part of the Civilian Repair Organisation.
    Air Service Training Ltd became part of Hawker Siddeley and as far I can tell remained at Hamble until about 1960.
    I can find nothing on-line or in any of my source books about the Southampton Training Aviation Company. Perhaps it was a much smaller concern that took the place of Air Service Training when it moved on to Perth or just a sub-division of AST.

    Tony

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    Thank you for your replies. I think I understand and will endeavour too put together a precis piece on Thursday when I am next updating the website. The local vicar unfortunately came along after the plaque and doesn't know much about it, but gave me the address of a church official to write to who might.

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf

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    Default Memorial page to Anson L9149 but we have some queries and confusions

    Jon,
    I may be able to find out more about the Southampton Training Aviation Co., but it would help to have an approximate date for the presentation of the plague. If your contacts can provide that I will look further.
    Tony

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