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Thread: Re: Pb477 (405 rcaf sqn) sgt. Sidney rhodes, flt/eng rafvr 1680670

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    Default Re: Pb477 (405 rcaf sqn) sgt. Sidney rhodes, flt/eng rafvr 1680670

    Continuing with the crew members of PB477 405 (RCAF) crew led by W/C Kenneth John Lawson:

    Short of ordering Sgt. Rhodes' records, I am having difficulty in finding information about him. Apart from confirmation that he was a member of this 405 PPF crew and a couple of documents, I am unable so far to confirm where he was born, who his parents were, when he enlisted, when he died and what other squadron/s he might have served with. This is what I do have:

    - Rhodes was a POW in Stalag Luft 1 (as was another member of this crew, W/O1 D. G. Plyley, rear air gunner).
    - Possibly born in 1916 Sculcoates, son of Sales Rhodes, mother’s surname, Cropper – can’t confirm this.
    - I have a hand-written document showing both Rhodes’and Plyley’s names along with those of 14 other men in Stalag Luft 1…..the title reads Stalag Luft 1, Barth, Germany, Block 304, North 3 Compound, Room 3. This document was among Plyley’s belongings when he returned home to Canada after the war.
    - Rhodes’ address on this document is 112 Tanfield Grove, Bilton Grange, Hull, Yorkshire.
    - I also have a letter written by Rhodes to the widow of Eric C. Duke (his dead crewmate) after the war ended. The return address is identical to the one shown on the Stalag Luft 1 list.
    - LG entry for his commission to Flt/Sgt dated 12 March 1946 and another entry dated 14 Oct. 1952 where he received his commission to P/O.
    - Rhodes’ name is mentioned in my uncle’s (F/O Geeves) WW2 file at Library & Archives Canada where he explains what happened the night of 02 Jan. ‘45 just before the front of the plane was blown out and CO Lawson gave the order to bail. Lawson and S/L Crawford “disappeared” and Rhodes was sucked out, parachuted into enemy territory and became entangled in a tree. He surrendered to the Germans the following morning.

    Any information regarding Rhodes would be most welcome. He is the only member of the crew left for whom I have little information.

    Carleton

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    Carleton,
    Something doesn't quite hang together on this one.
    If your bloke's Enlisted Service Number is correct (Enlisted Nov 41) then his career path from the LG is as follows:-

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT. o
    Appointment to commission.
    As Pit. Offs. on prob. (emergency): —
    Fit. Sgts. 29th Jan. 1946.
    .1680670 Sidney RHODES (201964).

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Confirmation and promotion.
    Pit. Offs. (prob.) confmd. in appts. and to be Fig. Offs. (war subs.): —
    2gth July 1946.
    S. RHODES (201964).

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    The undermentioned are granted the substantive rank of Flying Officer ist Nov. 1947 with the seniorities stated: —
    S.RHODES (201964). ist Nov. 1947.

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Appointment to commission
    As Flying Officer (permanent) —
    As Pilot Officers, extended service (four years on
    the active list)'—
    i5th May 1947
    Sidney RHODES (201964) {seniority 2gth Jan.
    1946)

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Appointment to commission.
    Transfer to reserve.
    The undermentioned (and called up for air force service):—
    Flying Officers:—
    8th May 1951. S. RHODES (201964). 14th May 1951.

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Appointment to commission (permanent).
    Under A.M.O. X.628/51.
    Sidney .RHODES (201964). 2nd July 1952.

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Promotion.
    Flying Officer to Flight Lieutenant:—
    llith Nov. 1954.
    S. RHODES (201964).

    ROYAL AIR FORCE REGIMENT.
    Retirement.
    Flight Lieutenant S. RHODES (201964). 29th Jan. 1958.

    It does not, currently, look likely that your Sculcoates Rhodes is the same bloke - ubnless the LG has Sidney Rhodes whereas it should have Sidney S Rhodes.

    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Sidney Rhodes, 1680670, died in July 1985 at Bridlington.

    As he has been dead for over 25 years you can request a copy of his service record from the MoD.

    Born 14th March 1912 in Sculcoates, mother maiden name McQuade, his birth registration has been delayed into the next quarter ie April/May/Jun.

    He is listed in my PoW index on this site but no camp given.

    Remuster into the Regiment on return from PoW and then postwar service as noted.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Default Sidney Rhodes, 1680670 (Born 1912) - LG Entries

    Hi Peter,

    I just need clarification on three things from your email regarding the date fo LG entries 2 and 4. What is the actual date...."2gth July 1946"?

    Entry #6: "Under A.M.O. X.628/51" A.M.O. appears to be Air Ministry Office? What is "X.628/51? The year is obviously 1951...would you please explain this term for me?

    Regards,

    Carleton

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    Default Sidney Rhodes, 1680670, died in July 1985 at Bridlington.

    Hello Ross,

    Thank you so much for the information you sent on the birth/death of Sidney Rhodes.

    The Sidney born in 1912 was my original choice. I was in contact 6 weeks ago with someone in Yorkshire who had both Sidney S. Rhodes and Sidney Rhodes in his family tree. He told me at that time that he was quite sure that the Sidney S. Rhodes born in 1916 was the one I was looking for and not the Sidney Rhodes born in 1912. He also told me that he would check this out at the library first opportunity he had. I received a message from last evening to confirm that the Sidney Rhodes b. in 1912 was indeed the airman in question. I had sent him the document I had which confirmed that Sidney Rhodes was in Stalag Luft 1 and which gave his address as 112 Tanfield Grove, Bilton Grange, Hull. My contact also confirmed this address from library documents. Sidney was married and lived at that address with his wife, Elizabeth.

    So, all is good.

    Many thanks for your help, Ross, and also to Peter, for pointing out the error. Sometimes it takes other people to point things like this out. This is a great list with great people who know what they are doing.

    Regards,

    Carleton

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    Carleton,
    Go to the LG website. Use 201964 as the "exact Phrase" entry, and you can see for yourself. The LG OCR/scanning is not always as good on the LG as it might be! But you can do your own decyphering!
    The "AMO" is an Air Ministry Order - i.e. the functional, RAF Legal, authority for something to happen, or to change an existing system to a new system. Again, I am not aware of an 'X' series of Orders - but that is not to say there wasn't one. I do not have a list of AMOs - somebody might (including RAFM at Hendon). This might be, again, a scanning error. If my failing memory serves me right, when I was in receipt of AMOs (in the early 50's) they came as "A" Orders, or "B" Orders, or "C" Orders! In alphanumeric descending order of importance!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: Pb477 (405 rcaf sqn) sgt. Sidney rhodes, flt/eng rafvr 1680670

    Hi again, Peter,

    Yep, looks like LG is wrong once again. As you said, I have a choice of any date between 24th and 29th of July 1946. About 2 months ago when I was looking for Sidney Rhodes' crewmate, Flt/Sgt Eric Cecil Duke, I did an LG search for him and found his commission to Flt.Sgt. The entry showed that Duke was with No. 31 Sqdn at the time. This led me on a wild goose chase which turned up nothing on this man. Only recently did I learn that LG had the sqdn number wrong. Duke was actually with No. 51 at the time. I now have documents supporting this.

    Thanks for the additional information on A.M.O. etc...

    I appreciate your help.

    Carleton

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    Hi Carlton

    I am somewhat confused by your comment 'his commission to Flt.Sgt'?

    Flt Sgt was a non-commissioned rank and would not be mentioned in the LG until the Flt Sgt was being commissioned as a Pilot Officer

    Malcolm

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    Hello,

    Re: Duke:

    7/8 Sept 1941
    No.51 Sqn
    Whitley V Z6937:MH-
    Op:Berlin

    T/o 2003 Dishforth. Stalled and crashed 0550 while making a second attempt to land at base. Sgt Jessup survived the crash, but died soon afterwards in Station Sick Quarters. Sgt Duke's injuries were minor.

    1164659 Sgt (Pilot) John Alfred REYNOLDS RAFVR +
    67691 P/O (Pilot) Leslie Charles Ross WILSON RAF +
    911895 Sgt (Obs.) Alexander Anthony JESSUP RAFVR - Injured (died later, 8-9-41)
    1152714 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Albert Edward BARRETT RAFVR +
    947721 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Eric Cecil DUKE RAFVR - Minor injuries.

    See: BCL2/140(with additives).

    Irrespective of what the LG, or Tavender have to say; Swift and Sure, by Keith S. Ford (p.395), and here:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1941/1941 - 2906.PDF

    Clearly indicate that Duke's unit at the time of the award of his DFM, was No.51 Sqn.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 8th September 2012 at 13:49.

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    Helllo Carelton

    your reading the LG wrong above, the LG lists Commisions of personel from Non-COmmishioned Rank to Officer Rank.

    The way to interpret the LG lists is usually:

    The men listed below are promoted to Pilot Officer rank

    then below that statement it will say
    Flt Sgt this means the following men are commishioned from Flt Sgt to P/O.
    Then the lists will continue with promotions from

    Sgts
    Leading Aircraftmen
    etc down the list of ranks

    The LG will only ever list a promotion to officer rank.

    The initial promotion to PO rank usually carries the persons full name, subsequently it usually just gives initials and serial number and any awards won.

    Read the LG listing for your man again and read up the list, the listing at the top with indicate he was made a P/O from Flt Sgt, or Sgt or AC1 or LAC rank etc
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 8th September 2012 at 14:18. Reason: generic statement Col
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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