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Thread: Spitfire Mk I N3269, c/n 481, crashed and destroyed by fire, 23/11/41....

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    Default Spitfire Mk I N3269, c/n 481, crashed and destroyed by fire, 23/11/41....

    Hi all,

    Can anybody help me with details of the loss of the above 57 OTU aircraft ?
    The Spitfire production list simply gives " FACE dbf 23-11-41"
    No location, cause or name of the pilot.
    I see the same unit also lost X4850 that day, near Chester, Sgt D.A.Wither RNZAF k.i.f.a.
    Air collision ?
    Any information gratefully received.
    TIA

    a15.
    Last edited by angelsonefive; 12th December 2012 at 14:40. Reason: Corrected pilot's initials.

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    From my 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: fates 1915-1942)' :

    Sun 23 Nov 1941
    Fighter Command
    Operational training
    57 Operational Training Unit, RAF (Hawarden, Flintshire - 81 Group)
    Spitfire I X4850 - circumstances unknown, but at about 1045 crashed near Moston Hill Farm, near Chester, Cheshire, 5 miles east of the airfield. The pilot is buried at Hawarden.
    Pilot: NZ41973 Sgt Douglas Anthony WITHER, RNZAF - Age 22. 171hrs.

    Errol

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    Default Spitfire N3269.

    Hi , I Cannot help much with this , but i have this , N3269 Arrived 57 OTU,11/10/41, Overshot Landing Ternhill and DBF
    23/11/41 nfd.

    X4850-Arrived 57 OTU,10/8/41 , Crashed Moston Hill Farm ( i think this should be Mostyn), Birkenhead Rd Mostyn ,Cheshire .Cat E , Sgt GA Wither NZ Kld .

    The Latter Accident is listed in the UNIT ORB but only the fact that Sgt Wither was killed in a F/A on this day

    not much , i hope these accidents may be sorted and it will update my notes ,that have remained Work in progress files for sometime , but if fear the outcome will remain a mystery ?

    bw phill jones

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    Phill,

    See OS

    SJ 404/705

    MostOn Hill Farm it is

    dg

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    Hi,

    Thank you all for your replies.

    Errol, I have noted Sgt Wither's correct initials. Thanks for that and the additional information.

    Phill, my interpretation of the Spitfire production list is that the Ternhill overshoot incident happened on 11-9-1941 while the aircraft was with 131 Sqdn. It was repaired on site and went to 57 OTU on 10/10/41. The Cat. E Flying Accident in which the Spitfire was destroyed was, as you say, on 23/11/41.
    I suppose my next step will be to try and get a copy of the F1180. I shall let you know what I find out.

    Cheers,
    a15.

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    Thanks for the Update of the Location of X4850

    Phill
    Last edited by phill jones; 12th December 2012 at 15:13. Reason: typo

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    Hi a15 , As i say a Mystery Spit is N 3269 , I Can only Confirm what i have in my notes

    131 Sqd, 15/7/41, Arrived .

    131 Sqd, 11/9/41, Cat AC IN F/A, Overshot landing and tipped on nose -de- Puysseleyr Jospeh

    ROS, 15/9/41.

    Recorded as being flown again at 131 Sqd on the 2/10/41 and 6/10/41 .

    as we have noted she was supposed to have been allocated to 57 OTU -10/11/10/41 .

    But a recorded flt again with 131 is recorded on the 13/10/41 .

    Written off on 23/11/41 ,Again overshot landing BUT DBF , , Now my point is this if the accident on the 11/9/41 was Repaired , did this Spitfire Suffer two over shoots the second being her Demise ? as my notes suggest , Had she been allocated to 57 OTU but simply did not arrive due to the accident of 23/11/41 before she had been delivered

    just my thoughts , Its another Mystery , sadly i do not as yet have the 1941 Spitfire 1180's or the Movement Card unless someone can help ,

    bw phill jones

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    Thanks for your thoughts, Phill.

    Interesting that N3269 was still with 131 Sqdn on 13/10/41, when the record shows that it changed ownership on the
    11th. Maybe the transfer was on paper only at the latter date and for some reason, possibly the unavailability of a pilot for the ferry flight, the aircraft remained with 131 for a few days longer.

    As for one aircraft suffering two similar accidents in its life ? Not impossible by any means.

    a15.
    Last edited by angelsonefive; 12th December 2012 at 18:14.

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