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Thread: Bristol Bulldog MK.IIa K2160 (Pilot F/O D Scrogie)

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    Default Bristol Bulldog MK.IIa K2160 (Pilot F/O D Scrogie)

    I have an oil painting of K2160 signed by (artist) by name of Gale '76. It depicts the aircraft flying above landscape and clouds. Have tried to track the artist but without success. I bought the oil some years ago when the RAF Officer's Mess in JHQ Rheindahlen closed. Why would there be a painting of this ill-fated K2160 done as late as 1976? Who would be interested in the painting?

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    I would have thought that there might have been more interest in this thread but I offer some personal thoughts which might throw some light on the subject.

    First, it seems probable that that the painting was not obtained officially by the mess and by that I mean loaned from the central repository or purchased on the open market. I say this because the aircraft or its type has no association with the RAF in Germany, as far as I know. Furthermore, if it was an official painting owned by the RAF and loaned to the station, it would have been recovered for use elsewhere or return to the repository.

    I believe it possible that it was painted – possibly by a mess member – and presented to the mess, perhaps as a farewell gift when the artist was posted elsewhere. Perhaps the unit Form 540 for the period might reveal a ‘Movements Roll’ in which somebody called Gale appears. I looked at the Retired List of officers and there are plenty of ‘Gales’ listed but at Rheindahlen, it does not have to have been an RAF officer.

    However it was obtained, it would have been recorded in the mess property book and when a mess closes, it is the custom to try to return property to those who donated it. This can be difficult with the passage of time or simply ignored if there is not the will to do it properly!! Afterwards, remaining property would then be sold and the money realised should go into the liquidated funds of the mess and returned to the RAF Central Fund. There would be many variations to this, which might include spending some or most of the funds on a major closure event.

    If you want to pursue the provenance of this painting, contact the ‘RAF News’ newspaper – it’s a rag but the best they can muster; unfortunately!! Tell them about the painting, ask if they would like to run an article to try to trace the artist or find out more about it. You could also put an advert in the same newspaper seeking anybody who knows about it. You don’t say exactly how and when you got it – don’t know when the mess closed – nor why you bought it but DON’T SELL IT!

    Colin Cummings

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    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13657-Trying-to-ID-F-O-D-Scrogie-quot-19-Sqn-October-17-1933-K2160-Bristol-Bulldog

    DaveW

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    Dudley Scorgie (not Scrogie) got court martailed (i believe as a result of the crash) left RAF joined a civilian outfit and had a couple of accidents in a Spetember 1936

    In fact he was the sole survivor of a air mail crash at Gatwick airport on Tuesday night 15th Sept 1936 "a four-engined machine, belonging to British Airways, Ltd?" and had another accident two days previously when the aeroplane he was piloting made a forced landing in Cologne. He escaped unhurt although the wireless operator was injured.


    Found it de Havilland DH.86 Express G-ADYF

    http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18719
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 25th January 2013 at 16:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldduffer View Post
    I would have thought that there might have been more interest in this thread but I offer some personal thoughts which might throw some light on the subject.

    First, it seems probable that that the painting was not obtained officially by the mess and by that I mean loaned from the central repository or purchased on the open market. I say this because the aircraft or its type has no association with the RAF in Germany, as far as I know. Furthermore, if it was an official painting owned by the RAF and loaned to the station, it would have been recovered for use elsewhere or return to the repository.

    I believe it possible that it was painted – possibly by a mess member – and presented to the mess, perhaps as a farewell gift when the artist was posted elsewhere. Perhaps the unit Form 540 for the period might reveal a ‘Movements Roll’ in which somebody called Gale appears. I looked at the Retired List of officers and there are plenty of ‘Gales’ listed but at Rheindahlen, it does not have to have been an RAF officer.

    However it was obtained, it would have been recorded in the mess property book and when a mess closes, it is the custom to try to return property to those who donated it. This can be difficult with the passage of time or simply ignored if there is not the will to do it properly!! Afterwards, remaining property would then be sold and the money realised should go into the liquidated funds of the mess and returned to the RAF Central Fund. There would be many variations to this, which might include spending some or most of the funds on a major closure event.

    If you want to pursue the provenance of this painting, contact the ‘RAF News’ newspaper – it’s a rag but the best they can muster; unfortunately!! Tell them about the painting, ask if they would like to run an article to try to trace the artist or find out more about it. You could also put an advert in the same newspaper seeking anybody who knows about it. You don’t say exactly how and when you got it – don’t know when the mess closed – nor why you bought it but DON’T SELL IT!

    Colin Cummings
    Thanks for this - I remember that a number of items were put up for secret ballot auction and this was one of them - I was surprised it was on offer - I was in NATO Service (but Army) - no way will I be selling it - it is about 80cms x 50cms and nicley decorates a wall here in my study. I keep searching -

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