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Thread: Service Number 744968

  1. #1
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    Default Service Number 744968

    Whilst awaiting the arrival of a Service Record, I am helping with some research on an Air Gunner who was born 25th January 1920 and killed in 1943.

    His service number 744968 falls into the 740000 to 759999 (Jan 1937 RAFVR Pilots) range and I was wondering if anyone could provide "more detailed information" on when and/or where this number was issued. I am assuming it was post 1937 as he would have only be 17 [although I recognise he could have lied about his DOB]).

    I have Ross's information from http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13206-RAF-Manpower-and-Deferred-Service which explains the recruitment process at the time, but does the service number allocation mean that he would have trained (and possibly qualified) as a pilot before the war?

    Regards

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteT; 14th May 2013 at 15:20.
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Pete, et al,

    What is needed is a small program (TFD as far as I am concerned) which takes the Service Number block (X to Y), and the time between which it was issued (a to b), and calculates (assuming* a regular pattern of issuance!) the time when whoever took The King's Shilling passed into The System. Theoretically, it will tell you that Bloggs, J, Signed-On, or was Called-Up, to the Month, Date, Hour, etc. But that is clearly a nonsense. But such a putative program will, though, aid those researching individuals to reach a more possible accurate “Date of Joining”. At the moment it tends to be the date from which the first number in any block was issued – or later? (but by how much)!. Our RAF (non-Commissioned) Service Number expert may care to comment – provided he’s on the circuit!

    HTH
    Peter Davies

    * One of the most dangerous things in research of any sort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 14th May 2013 at 14:48.
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Peter

    Thanks for the response.

    With this range I think you would also have to factor in that there were regional airfields involved (not sure how many in 1937) so I am assuming that they each would have had an allocation.

    ... but as you say, how simpler it would be if we had a magic programme ... or would research become too easy?!

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  4. #4
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    Pete,
    Tks yrs. Answer to Research:- No! Every answer ALWAYS (I kid you not!!) produces more questions than it answers!! Which is, partly, why wild animals are taking up home in my lawns (prairies?!!) 'cos I'm doing this in stead of mowing 'em!!!!!!!! Interesting if anybody can construct such a program. I could test it with my NSA Induction/Number!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    PS Number Crunchers get your thinking caps on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Hi,

    744900-744979 seems to be an aircrew block.
    744902 enlisted March 1939 !

    Mark

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    Mark

    That makes a lot more sense in terms of timings; do you know if this block was allocated to a specific enlistment area?

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Pete/Peter,
    I think the only way to get abetter understadning of the allocation of service numbers is to solicit known numbers and issue dates from members of the forum. This could possibly give some time frame of issue in the various recruiting centres.
    I don't think the numbers had any specific relationship to the date of birth or any other factor just on a strict rotational order.
    Identity cards were, I beleive, allied to personal information as were the first national insurance numbers.
    I am willing to provide my fathers number, date and recruiting cemntre to get the ball rolling, and collate information if required.

    over to the forum....

    Paul H

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    Peter/Mark/Paul,
    Well, it was going so well until Mark's post!! Flight trials were proceeding satisfactorily – but his post caused a major crash!!
    The Block in question issues 19,361 numbers. The time scale is from Jan 37 to Aug 39 – i.e. 31 months. Therefore (3 dots!) they were issuing 625 numbers per month – or 21 per day (forget, for sake of argument, the number of days in the various months and/or whether the Recruiting Centres were open 7 days a week, or only 5.). My system issues 744968 in the last few days of Sep 37. Thus, you can see my purely statistical/mathematical approach to the problem.
    Now Mark tells us that 744902 Enlisted in Mar 39 – don’t compute!! The only (very!!) slight saving grace is that 744902 might have been issued in Sep 37, but that the bod was deferred (for one reason or another) from actually joining until Mar 39.
    I’m not prepared to throw the towel in yet – I think my theory has some limited merit. It’s just that my maths/computer-skills won’t cope with the complexities. However, I am prepared to admit that I am on VERY shaky ground!!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Just trying to keep the subject of 744968 separate from the general topic of service number allocation for a moment.

    Having had another read through of Jeffords "Observers and Navigators" it would appear that during the latter part of 1938 and the first half of 1939 there was a push to get RAFVR "aircrew" (observers and gunners) trained.

    I am wondering if the "aircrew block" mentioned by Mark was related to personnel signing up to this scheme. [Mark: Do you have any further breakdown of the 740000 to 759999 block?]

    Regards

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteT; 15th May 2013 at 13:35.
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  10. #10
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    Default Service Numbers - ground personnel February 1939

    My late father enlisted in February 1939 - 635684 - and I have a photo of him at Cardington where 635685 and 635686 are also shown, as well as 635808, 635809, and 635901. His basic training was from February to May 1939, and in one group photo their are 11 of them, and 15 in another - they were P Flight, 96 Squadron, No. 3 Wing

    He was 17 when he enlisted and not 18 until November 1939 and he enlisted in central London

    cheers

    Allan
    Allan Hillman

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