No 3 FTS South Cerney

[Penny Staley]

Can anyone help me with further informatin on the navigation training at South Cerney in WW11? I am interested in No 3 FTS, No 3 (P) AFU and No 3 SFTS. I work in the building used for training Navigators during the war and would like to find out about who worked here to create a history board for my building.

[WOODHEAD]

Hi Penny
I can give you some information on 3SFTS No. 43 Course November 40 to April 41.Those attending the course were all future pilots moving on from EFTS courses still with the rank of LAC. I only have the surnames of the majority on the course.-

Armstrong, Bainbridge, Beardmore, Bell, Benson, Birley, Campbell, Chippendale, Cosgrave, Crossley Curtis, Davies, Dixon, Gibb, Green, Hanafin, Hardy, Havelock, Healey, Holdsworth
Horsley, Hovell, Kirkham, Kitto, Leach, Mair, Manuel, Mayhew, Monk, Mortimer,
Owen, Prentice, Pritchard, Rippon, Roper, Sewell, Smith, Stell, Stocks Stoney,Thomas,Truscott,Watson,Welch,Wheatley,Wickh am,Wild,Wontner-Smith,Woodhead

The names come from a group photograph I have.The location of the photograph with the two large windows forming a back drop, was regularly used for Course photographs.

The fortunes of these young men varied dramatically, destined as future pilots on twin engined bombers
and later four engined bombers. Researching the names gives an insight into war, those that would survive
and those KIA, including training accidents. Oxford N6336 crashed attempting a forced landing on the 13 November, a few days after the group photograph. LAC Andrew Wontner-Smith died on the 18 November possibly from injuries sustained. He is buried in All Hallows Churchyard, South Cerney. My father, sat next to him in the group photograph was a survivor, completing a tour on Hampdens and continuous flying as an instructor until demob. 1254803 Beresford Peter Torrington HORSLEY (63462) would retire from the RAF in 1975 having reached the rank of Commander-in-Chief RAF Strike Command. He was one of sixteen members of the group who left South Cerney with his wings and a Commission.The remainder like my father would leave with his wings and the rank of Sergeant.

My fathers log book for this period gives an insight into his training on the Oxford and the twenty areas of flying instruction needed to be completed along with a comprehensive understanding of the Oxfords flying systems. The sequence of instruction also involved twelve hours on the LinkTrainer. You can also glean from these pages the names of those instructing. My fathers main instructor was Sergeant Kleboe, he became Pilot Officer Kleboe on the 9 December. His signature for the entry on December 28 reveals his initials as Pilot Officer P.A. Kleboe. Peter Andrew Kleboe went on to have a distinguished record within the RAFVR. Becoming a Wing Commander decorated with the DSO, DFC and AFC. He was killed 21 March 1945 while attacking the Shellhus, Gestapo Headquarters in Copenhagen city centre, (Operation Carthage), flying a Mosquito from 21 Squadron.The raid is well documented.

Hope this gives an insight into the many pilots that will have passed through South Cerney.

Drop me a private message if you want a copy of the photograph of No. 43 Course November 40.

John

[PeteT]

Penny

No 3 (P) AFU was No 3 (Pilot) Advanced Flying Unit.

A WWII publication states "It is probable that you will return to the UK for your next course at an Advanced Flying Unit. The object of this course is to acclimatise you to Service flying under the conditions peculiar to Northern Europe. Your night flying will not hitherto have been carried out in a proper ‘black-out’; the highly-populated regions of England, France and Germany, with their rapid changes of weather, make for more difficult map-reading than, say, the vast plains of the American continent, where unmistakable landmarks are visible from many miles away in a relatively stable climate"

I recognise this is high level, but I hope you find it useful.

Regards

Pete

[Penny Staley]

Thank you for your postings - I know very little about the building I work in so it is great to get more information.

[jossleclercq]

Hello

Can someone confirm if there was a Wireless operator / radio school at South Cerney in 1941/42 ? I have an airman who was stationed there at that time, he became later a Wireless operator and was killed in action in 1943.

TIA

Joss

[Resmoroh]

Joss, Hi,
Very difficult! HQ 23 Group, Flying Training Command, appears to have been at S Cerney for most of WW2. The Group HQ would have needed to communicate with its Outstations and, possibly, aircraft flying from them. But Group HQs were normally mostly full of "pen pushers" (or "scribblies" as I knew them!). That is not to say that your guy might not have been a communicator of some sort (teleprinters, and the like) where promotion was v slow. To get to Sgt (3 stripes, better Mess, fewer Parades, etc, etc) by doing a W/Op course, and then aircrew, would seem a reasonable theory - at that time (if he had known the BC loss rates then he might have been better off staying in a nice warm, dry, Comcen and using the NAAFI (or Cpls Club)). But who can tell?
However, Malcolm - on rafweb - does not seem to indicate that there was NOT a W/Op, or Radio School, at S Cerney.
It is, incidentally, the only Offs Mess I've actually ever broken OUT of to go on v early duty!! Op GUARDIAN ANGEL (Apr 1978) where a couple of our Royal Princes gained their "para" wings. V twitchy - V Senior Officers V twitchey as well!! In the event of "marginal conditions" for either the balloon drops, or the real para-drops, 'They' had to get the direct, positive, approval of HMQueen.
HTH
Peter Davies