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Thread: RAF Aircraft Accident Card abbreviation

  1. #11
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    Default "Bomber Command Weekly Casualties. (F. B.)"

    Hello Ross

    1940 "Bomber Command Weekly Casualties. (F. B.)"

    Thanks for your response. I attach these two links to a 1940 Bomber Command Weekly Casualties (F. B.), I have scanned in two halves, from the PRO, Kew, A2 photocopy. The lighter numbers typed in Red on the original.

    <a href="http://www.rafcommands.com/galleries/var/resizes/members/Bomber%20Command%20Weekly%20Casualties%20%28F_%20B _%29%20left%20side.jpg?m=1431967852">Click Here</a>

    <a href="http://www.rafcommands.com/galleries/var/resizes/members/Bomber%20Command%20Weekly%20Casualties%20%28F_%20B _%29%20right%20side.jpg?m=1431967925">Click Here</a>

    Oh dear the links don't work, but the 2 halves of the A2 PRO photocopy are in the RAF Commands Gallery.

    In 1940 F.B. included both A & N on the table:-

    "A. DUE TO ACTION."
    "N. NOT DUE TO ACTION."
    "DAMAGED * CAT.2."

    Unfortunately, I only had 1940 Sheets photocopied.

    However, in 1940 the "F. B." Casualties covers aircraft both "due to action" and "not due to action."

    In 1940 "F.B." does not always mean Flying Battle.

    From what you have suggested the F.B. category was dropped in 1941.

    One thing we can say is that the Bomber Command Casualty numbers were a huge sacrifice.

    Regards Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 18th May 2015 at 18:08.

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    Deleted - after a deep breath!

    None of that has any bearing on your previous posts regarding Casualty Signal or AM1180.

    This is the corresponding summary page for Nov 1941 from the gallery posts you made for 194O series of Bomber Command Summmary.

    http://www.rafaircraftaccidents.com/DSCF3649.JPG

    Damage is now extended from Cat.2 to E, A, B, AC and Missing and split between airframes and crews but totalled for all types

    I have not suggested FB was dropped in 1941.

    I said FB was no longer normally recorded on AM1180 (overseas commands still used old stocks) but remained in use on Casualty Signal.

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 18th May 2015 at 18:58.
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    Hello Ross

    Thanks for the photo link.

    The 1940 Casualty Signal prefix F.B. simply meant operational flying in 1940. The 1940 Bomber Command Weekly Casualties F.B. table (in Image Gallery) indicates that F.B. covers both, aircraft damaged due to action and aircraft not damaged due to action.

    This 1940 table is placed with others in part of a very large Ledger of bound tables, should be in AIR 14/933 Bomber Command: summaries sorties, casualties. 01 May 1940 - 31 December 1941.

    Whilst FB on a 1940 AM1180 Flying Accident Card usually means caused by action.

    On other paperwork this may not always be the case.

    Kind regards Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 18th May 2015 at 23:17. Reason: Thanks for link to photo

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    I'm reading your reply Ross with interest, thank you.

    I have been reading the file on Whitley P5044 which impacted balloon cables at Eastleigh, but was on Fire in the Air per A.M.1180 [before impact].

    The crash was under investigation by the A.I.B. (Accidents Investigation Branch) who didn't record a cause on their A.I.B. Index Card.

    The Rear Admiral Naval Air Service (R.A.N.A.S.) Eastleigh initially signalled the accident at Enclosure 1A, as F.A. and Cause N.K., but R.A.F. Signalled F.B. struck balloon barrage and the A.I.B. Inquiry seemed to stop (no Form 765c and no Court of Inquiry either).

    Nearly Eleven year later, on 19th February 1951 and despite the R.A.F. previously stating F.B. up to 1947, a note from A.2 to a Miss Stanley in the AIR 81 Casualty File asks that the Category of this accident be amended to F.A. in respect of the R.A.F. personnel listed Encl 1A refers.

    Observer Corps records confirm that about 10 mins before the crash time, Red Flares were seen and plotted S.E. of Sandown Isle of Wight, someone was sending a Distress Message (Red Flares fired while flying over the Sea was S.O.S.) an aircraft was in grave and imminent danger and wanted immediate assistance.

    A file started later in the War about the Investigation of Aircraft fires, suggests the R.A.F. simply put many down to Enemy Action during the war years and didn't investigate them, but Fire was a problem and the Accidents Investigation Branch were going to look at the problem of aircraft catching fire in more detail around 1944.

    They could see from Statistical Analysis of Aircraft Fires that some aircraft and engines were more prone to catching fire than other aircraft and engine types and therefore some aircraft fires could not be blamed on enemy action and a more in-depth investigation and prevention work was needed and the A.I.B. appointed Keith Swainger, an Australian.

    Mark


    Quote Originally Posted by Ross_McNeill View Post
    "FA" prefix on a Casualty Signal does not mean Non-operational flying as you state.

    FA is defined in Kings Regulations and ACI

    1326 Flying Accidents

    1-"Flying accidents" shall, as regards courts of inquiry, be deemed to include all accidents arising from causes (other than enemy action) connected with flying, and shall include not only those arising in flight, but also those arising -

    (a) in starting the aircraft for its flight, including airscrew accidents;
    (b) in landing, or alighting on water, after its flight; and
    (c) in hoisting an aircraft out of or into a ship and securing it on board.

    So FA can mean Operational Flying if the cause was not enemy action. This is evidenced with the AO box in Form 1180 to denote a sub category of Flying Accident of Air Operations.

    As regards use in Casualty Returns/Messages

    Appendix III of AP 1301 RAF War Manual Part II that you have referenced elsewhere has four Message signals for Casualties and a clarification of Note 3

    Note 3 - All flying battle casualties or flying accidents, non flying battle casualties and accidents, deaths or dangerous illness occurring to an officer, nurse, airman or personnel of other services and the change from the latter condition, will be immediately reported by signal.

    ...

    Message "A"
    Flying Battle Casualties or Flying Accidents

    The subject matter of the message will commence with the originator's reference number and date followed by the letters "F.B." for a flying battle casualty and "F.A." for a flying accident followed by:-....

    ...
    Message "B"
    Non Flying Battle Casualties

    ...

    Message "C"
    Natural Deaths or Illnesses

    ...

    Message "D"
    Accidental or Self-Inflicted Injuries

    So "F.B." on a casualty signal means flying battle casualty in the sense of being caused by enemy action while flying by what ever means.

    Ross
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 13th April 2019 at 22:19.

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