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Thread: N1474 (Witney)

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    Default N1474 (Witney)

    On the net, I have been able to establish:
    "Whitley N1474 was built to contract 75147/38 by Armstrong Whitworth Ltd. at Baginton and was awaiting collection on 30th December 1939. After a short period of storage it was issued to 77 Squadron at Driffield in early 1940. It moved with this unit to Kinloss on 15th April 1940 and returned to Driffield with them on 4th May 1940. No damage was sustained in the incident at Flamborough on 4th August 1940 (Cat.U). The aircraft was transferred to 10 OTU at Abingdon on an unspecified date in early 1941 to be used in a training role. It was written off in a crash on 17th June 1941 Cat.W/FA damage recorded, when it crashed into a house on take off from Abingdon with four of the crew being killed on that occasion."

    Part of the crew was Ali Raza Khan Pasha (my maternal uncle), one of the 24 Indian pilots that went to the UK, arriving Oct 8, 1940.

    I have also established that 10 OTU is number 10 Operational Training Unit - so Uncle Pasha was apparently still in training when his aircraft (a Whitley serial number N1474) crashed into a house on take off from Abingdon. Whether Uncle Pasha was piloting is not known. There was also a Plt Offr Kali Prasad Choudhary that was killed in the crash. The whole list of 4 that died in that crash on June 17 1941 (elsewhere I have also read June 18) is:
    17/ 6/1941 P/O ALI RAZA KHAN PASHA
    17/ 6/1941 P/O CHAUNDHURY K P
    17/ 6/1941 SGT YERBURY W E S
    17/ 6/1941 SGT KENYON J C

    Any further information on this crash (or on Ali Raza Khan Pasha) would be appreciated. E.g. who was piloting N1474 when it crashed?

    Look forward to any further information.

    Jay Bokhari

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    Default No. 10 OTU

    Jay,

    You could also ask the RAF Museum at Hendon to look up the aircraft accident report card for you. There should be one, with the findings of any enquiry. Fatal crashes at Abingdon, as on other OTUs, were far from uncommon.

    Another likely place for answers is in the National Archive at Kew, in the Operations Record Book for 10 OTU (catalogue reference AIR29/638), or its Appendices (AIR29/640). You would need to obtain a reader's card to look at the original documents as they have not been digitized. On the other hand, a forum member heading to Kew may look it up for you. Getting the National Archive to make a copy for you, with only an outside chance of it producing anything useful for you, would be (a) expensive and (b) an unsound investment.

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    Hello Jay

    Recorded in Roberts, so there should be a "Flying Accident Card" (2 sided). Also ask for the two sided "Aircraft Card" (A.M.78) copies too. As already suggested the RAF Museum, Hendon, should be able to help you.

    Bill Chorley has take off at 23.35 hrs with Ali Raza Khan Pasha RIAF as Captain of N1474. The Whitley climbed to 150 feet dived in a left hand bank, crashing onto East House, Officers' Married Quarters.

    Mark

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    Default N1474 Whitley

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hood View Post
    Hello Jay

    Recorded in Roberts, so there should be a "Flying Accident Card" (2 sided). Also ask for the two sided "Aircraft Card" (A.M.78) copies too. As already suggested the RAF Museum, Hendon, should be able to help you.

    Bill Chorley has take off at 23.35 hrs with Ali Raza Khan Pasha RIAF as Captain of N1474. The Whitley climbed to 150 feet dived in a left hand bank, crashing onto East House, Officers' Married Quarters.

    Mark
    Thanks, Mark (and deadrock, and AlanW).

    Given that he was already a pilot when he arrived in the UK in Oct 1940, was P/O Pasha still under training in 10 OTU or was he an instructor? Had he seen any "real" action? Is there any way I can track down his service record?

    Thanks.

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    Default

    Hello Jay

    No. 10 O.T.U came under No. 6 Group Bomber Command.

    If you get a Readers Ticket to go and see (or purchase photocopies) of the two No. 10 Operations Record Books entries (previously mentioned), also have a look at No. 6 Group ORBs and Orders (in the AIR 25 series) and Bomber Command ORBs and Orders (in AIR 24 series), as the AOC issued a "Group Routine Order" according to Bill Chorley praising the valiant efforts made by the Station Fire Section to rescue the Whitley crew.

    Hopefully, the 10 O.T.U. O.R.B. at The National Archives, Kew, other records, including the Flying Accident Card microfilm copies (at RAF Museum Hendon) will answer your questions about whether your Uncle was Training crews and the purpose of the flight.

    I presume you have found the two low resolution headstone photographs (partly written in Indian, I presume)?

    Also found this in Flightglobal briefly recording his loss:-
    http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941%20-%201794.html

    Sometimes the London Gazette mentions Pilot promotions? www.gazettes-online.co.uk

    For Service Records Cranwell should be able to advise where these might be held for RIAF, see http://www.raf.mod.uk/links/contacts.cfm

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 2nd July 2013 at 20:32. Reason: Service Record

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    Default

    Jay,

    I am sorry I missed reading this at that time.

    Would you be able to identify your uncle out of the group photo of the 24? I have been trying to put names to faces and he is one of the few that I could not identify. Specifically this photo http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Ga...thRAF.jpg.html


    He was not an instructor at 10OTU but a trainee pilot in heavy bombers. All the 24 who arrived in UK were PPL holders but would have needed further training in high performance and heavier aircraft before being considered operational.

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    Default

    He (ALI RAZA KHAN PASHA) is sitting (seconf row from bottom) third from left.

    Keep me updated.

    Thanks,

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    Default

    Thanks Jay. that is indeed one of the faces i didnt have a name for.!

    And that must be him in the center in this photo

    With this.. I can clearly identify him in another photograph that appears in the book "Eagle Strikes" . i will post that image sometime soon.

    There is an excellent video on youtube under the British Pathe account. Search for "Indian Pilots" and "British Pathe" and you may find it. It has some close up shots of the Indian pilots and probably captured all the 24 on video.

    if you have any family photographs or documents that you think you can share on this board, please do.. I would be most interested in such artifacts.
    Last edited by Jagan; 12th August 2014 at 13:24.

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