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Thread: Late production Fortress IIIs

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    Default Late production Fortress IIIs

    A US reader of my web pages has found US records for several Fortress IIIs (B-17Gs) transferred to the RAF in late 1944, that apparently never made it to the UK. He has stated that US documents show the aircraft transferred to the RCAF, but I can't find any support for this in Canadian records. Can anyone provide UK records on the fate of these serials?

    KJ111 to KJ127
    KL830 to KL836

    Robertson reports several aircraft from these batches as "retained in Canada" without individual serials or further info. These leads me to believe that "retained in" probably means "scrapped in" but would be interested in any additional info.

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    Default Late production Fortress IIIs

    Hello Bill,
    If it helps -
    AB's KA100 - KZ999 has the following
    KJ100 to KJ127, servedwith 214,223 Squadrons, while a few were with 1699flt and the Radio Warfare Establishment.
    And for KL830 to KL837, only 835 is AAEE and 836 is 223 Sqdn.

    From AB's "The British Air Commission and Lend-Lease" has -

    KJ100-102 (3) = 44-8242 to 8244
    KJ103-110 (8) = 44-8336 to 8343
    KJ111-115 (5) = 44-8534 to 8538
    KJ116-125 (10) = 44-8619 to 8628
    KJ126-127 (2) = 44- 8861 to 8862
    KL830-837 (8) = 44-8863 to 897

    36 aircraft.

    KJ103 214 hit tres on approach, Oulton 17,1,45.
    KJ106 214 Missing on bomber support mission 7.3.45.
    KJ112 214 Missing on bomber support mission 22.3.45.

    perhaps the last eight never crossed the pond ?
    If I recall there was a peice in a late issue of Air Enthusiast Bi Monthly magazine about Canadian use of
    B17,s that were used as transports or for military Postal service (?).

    Alex

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    Default

    Hello Bill,

    My US aircraft serial reference for years must be Joe Baugher. A great work by him since many years.

    Found a little more details about fate of each mentioned B-17, but no country.

    http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1944_1.html

    Regards

    Finn Buch

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    Default Fortress

    G'day

    The block of Fortress MK. III's KJ100 - KJ127 were delivered to the Royal Air Force as from October, 1944.
    Apparently 12 of these aircraft went to the R.C.A.F. There are no record cards that would support them having been taken on strength with the R.C.A.F. FK192 a Fortress Mk. IIA is also reported to have been sent to the R.C.A.F. I have nothing to support this claim.

    Cheers...Chris

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    Hi Chris,

    Can you tell me any more about these extra Forts for the RCAF? Carl Vincent's excellant book on the Liberators and Fortresses on the official RCAF records makes no mention of them, but does describe in detail how the RCAF tried for years to get additional long range aircraft, without results until the extra Liberators were made available. Given that these extra transport Liberators started arriving in late 1944, I'm surprised that the British and US would give up extra Fortresses at the same time.

    I'm still hoping someone in the UK can find some info on what the RAF records show for the aircraft that didn't make it to the UK.

    Alex, the RCAF Fortresses that are better known are covered on my web page http://www.rwrwalker.ca/RCAF_forts_detailed.html.

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    Chris,

    Fortress IIA FK192 has been reported as on strength with the RCAF but am confident this is because it was in fact assigned to 45 Group at Dorval for training and transportation duties, as documented in an aircrew logbook and on a number of Ferry Command aircrew assignment cards. It became the last of the 45 Mk IIAs delivered to the UK and served in the Met research role with the A&AEE.

    Cheers,

    Robert
    Last edited by robstitt; 17th July 2013 at 06:23.

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    Default

    Hi,

    I've checked "The B-17 Flying Fortress story" by Roger A. Freeman (page 299-301), from KL830 - KL837.

    All delivered in transit Dorval. RCAF mentioned, but the 3 first go to 51 MU.

    So all 8 units could in theory be delivered to 51 MU Lichfield in U.K.

    44-

    8863 to RAF as Fortress III KL830. SOC 9/15/1947.
    Del Dorval 17/1 1945; ass RCAF 51 MU

    8864 to RAF as Fortress III KL831. SOC Sep 4, 1946
    Del Dorval 17/1 1945; ass RCAF 51 MU

    8865 to RAF as Fortress III KL832. SOC Sep 15, 1947
    Del Dorval 17/1 1945; ass RCAF 51 MU

    ----------
    44-

    8966/8970 to RAF as Fortress III KL833/KL837.


    KL833 SOC Mar 11, 1947
    Del Dallas 15/2 1945; tran Dorval, Canada 2/3 45
    ass RCAF

    KL834 SOC Sep 15, 1947
    Del Dallas 16/2 1945; tran Dorval, Canada 2/3 45
    ass RCAF

    KL835 SOC Mar 11, 1947
    Del Cheyenne 19/2 1945; tran Dorval 4/3 45
    ass RCAF

    KL836 SOC Mar 11, 1947 (Freeman SOC?)
    Del Cheyenne 24/2 1945; tran Dorval 4/3 45
    ass RCAF

    KL837 SOC Jul 31, 1947.
    Del Cheyenne 24/2 1945; tran Dorval 4/3 45
    ass RCAF

    Regards

    Finn Buch

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    Thanks Finn. My US source quoted Freeman's book as the source of the RCAF connection, but he also said he has found several other errors throughout that book. He is gathering data for a book on post war B-17s.

    Does anybody have the RAF records for these aircraft?

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    51 MU Lichfield was where most retired RAF Fortresses were scrapped around 1947 so would suspect that with the war over these aircraft never saw service. Am checking with the person who compiled the individual histories for Roger to see what he can recall about the RCAF references.

    Robert
    Last edited by robstitt; 17th July 2013 at 18:20.

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    Hi again,

    Maybe I have found a clue to be followed:

    8864 to RAF as Fortress III KL831. SOC Sep 4, 1946
    Del Dorval 17/1 1945; ass RCAF 51 MU

    Additional info from a French website:
    "aéronautique Collège Cranwell"

    So I think destination before scrapped, was RAF College Cranwell.

    Regards

    Finn Buch

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