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Thread: Several questions Berlin raid 2-3 December 1943

  1. #1
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    Default Several questions Berlin raid 2-3 December 1943

    Dear all,

    For the research of the new narrative and fighter/Flak claims/matchings list of the 2/3 December 1943 Berlin raid in the Nachtjagd War Diaries 2nd edition, I would like to pose several questions:

    First, I am looking for information about the time over target of the following Squadrons that took part in the 2/3 December 1943 Berlin raid:

    9 Squadron
    12 Squadron
    44 Squadron
    49 Squadron
    50 Squadron
    57 Squadron
    101 Squadron
    103 Squadron
    106 Squadron
    207 Squadron
    432 Squadron
    460 Squadron
    514 Squadron
    619 Squadron
    626 Squadron
    630 Squadron

    Also: who can provide information about the crash location, time of loss & cause of loss of the following 'heavies' on 2/3 December 43:

    44 Squadron Lancaster JA700
    49 Squadron Lancaster JB371
    57 Squadron Lancaster JB529
    101 Squadron Lancaster JB128
    103 Squadron Lancaster JB403
    460 Squadron Lancaster LM316

    Lastly: I am looking for any info on a combat (i.e. when/when/details) between a night fighter and 432 Squadron Lancaster DS851, the bomber being badly shot about and wrecked upon return to East Moor.

    Any info much appreciated!

    Cheers, Theo

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    Theo

    I note that 35 Squadron is not included in your list; is this an oversight or do you already have the information on its strength / losses?

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    As far as I know LM316 of 460 sqn, AR - H2, was the plane the Norwegian poet, novelist and journalist Nordahl Grieg where on board as a war correspondent. The plane is said to have crashed close to Machnower See at Kleinmachnow between Potsdam and Berlin. Its said to have fallen victim to Flak. Pilot was A. R. Mitchell, RAAF, and all on board were killed.
    I Guess its a small memorial at the spot.

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    Hello Pete,

    I have for HX167: cr. 500 m SE Ummern, Kreis Celle, Flak and NF -can you confirm these details?

    No details available on the loss of HR876 other than crashed near DŁsseldorf; do you have anything specific on the crash location & time/cause of loss?

    And hello JK Stenwig,

    Many thanks for sharing these additional details on LM316!

    Cheers, Theo

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    Can only add for DS851 (432 Squadron) that the combat with the night fighter damaged the aircraft hydraulics. The aircraft overshot attempting a landing at East Moor and wound up in a farmer's field.

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    Theo,

    Via 3 Group ORB.
    Zero Hour 20:00hrs

    1st wave
    62 Hx 4 Group
    38 Hx 6 Group
    Z +3

    2nd Wave
    61 Hx 4 Group
    38 Hx 6 Group
    Z+3 to Z+6

    3rd Wave
    41 L 1 Group
    7 L 3 Group
    47 L 5 Group
    13 L 6 Group
    Z+6 to Z+10

    4th Wave
    40 L 1 Group
    8 L 3 Group
    48 L 5 Group
    13 L 6 Group
    Z+10 to Z + 14

    5th Wave
    40 L 1 Group
    7 L 3 Group
    48 L 5 Group
    153 L 6 Group
    Z+14 to Z+18


    Hope it helps.

    PS Library still shut !!!

    Regards

    Steve
    No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian
    No.623 squadron Research

    ~~IN TIME ~~

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    Hi Theo,
    I found this thread by accident while googling something else, but I stopped in my tracks when I saw "103 Squadron Lancaster JB403". This was the aircraft my great uncle (G A England) was killed in. Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this particular machine? Have you been lucky enough to find any of the information you were looking for regarding this machine? Whilst I know a great deal about my Uncle's service, I know next to nothing about the loss of his aircraft. There is a long standing family rumour which suggests the aircraft was attacked by a fighter on the way the target and the rear gunner fell from the aircraft as a result of the attack. I really don't know where this information came from -There seems to be little evidence to substantiate it, other than the fact rear gunner (R H Tomlin) was not originally buried with the rest of the crew, but was moved after the war. I would be interested to know if you have any further information regarding the loss of JB403 though.
    Regards,
    Tom England

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    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for your welcome posting -regrettably I have no info at all about the circumstances of loss of JB403, or details of the crash location. If I would have these basic details, I could try and match it to the documented German night fighter claims on 2-3 December 1943! Do you perhaps know the original burial location of Sgt. Tomlin?

    Cheers, Theo

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