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Thread: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

  1. #231
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Made 5 FoI requests today for long tail closed records 2065 to 2075 release dates - will let you know know i get on including 4) (see below) which surprised ne as still being closed

    1) AIR 81/1831 Pilot Officer H A Lovell: killed; aircraft accident, Waltham Abbey, Hurricane L1724, 151 Squadron, 18 February 1940. 01/01/2072

    Pilot Officer Harold Arthur Lovell Service Number: 40724. 151 Squadron, a 19 year old originating from Morden, Surrey, was flying No. 3 in a section with Flying Officer Newton leading and Pilot Officer Hamar No. 2. The section had taken off at 15:55 hrs was returning to the aerodrome and were forced to fly low owing to the weather. Lovell was killed when his Hurricane I L1724 ("DZ-C") struck a tree near Waltham Abbey, besides Honeylands, off Honey Lane. The collision with the tree robbed the Hurricane of flying speed.

    This record is currently closed until 01/01/2072 I assume as someone made an enquiry on file circa 1980 - If any personal information contained as a result of this then it could be redacted to allow file to be released

    Reference Number: TNA1645121824V17

    2) AIR 81/1823 Flying Officer C P S Smith, Leading Aircraftman L D Stratford: killed; aircraft accident, Margam Range, Wallace K4340, 7 Bombing and Gunnery School, 11 February 1940. 01/01/2065

    Flying Officer Clifford Parker SEYMOUR-SMITH (70629)
    Laurence Dacre Stratford #751663


    " THE STORY OF A SOUTH WALES WARTIME TRAINING AERODROME, STORMY DOWN by Raymond E Cottrell "
    "Later that day Flying Officer Clifford Parker SEYMOUR-SMITH (70629) was flying Wallace K4340 over the range at Margam sands with trainee air gunner Laurence Dacre Stratford #751663 on an air experience flight. The Wallace stalled at a low altitude and dived into the ground and burned out, killing both."


    This record is currently closed until 01/01/2065 I assume as someone made an enquiry on file circa 1973 - If any personal information contained as a result of this then it could be redacted to allow file to be released

    Reference Number: TNA1645121907A86

    3) AIR 81/2117 "Sergeant J J Grierson, Sergeant J W Paul, Aircraftman J Paterson: killed; shot down, enemy action, Blenheim P9210, 82 Squadron, 17 May 1940.
    Note: With photographs" 01/01/2065


    Blenheim P9210: Took off 04:50 hrs from RAF Watton. Shot down, enemy action. 17 May 1940.
    All 12 Blenheims lost on this mission.
    Crew:
    P/O (44976) James Joseph GRIERSON (Pilot) RAF - killed
    Sgt (581002) Joseph William PAUL (Obs.) RAF - killed
    AC2 (626953) John Hedley PATTERSON (Wop/AG) RAF - killed;

    This record is currently closed until 01/01/2065 I assume as someone made an enquiry on file circa 1973 - If any personal information contained as a result of this then it could be redacted to allow file to be released

    Reference Number: TNA1645121960P35


    4) AIR 81/2221 Flying Officer E J Kain: killed; aircraft accident, Hurricane L1826, 73 Squadron, 7 June 1940. 01/01/2064



    On 6 June 1940, F/O Edgar James "Cobber" KAIN Service number: 39534 DFC, who was the RAF's top ace, was informed he would be returning to England the next day. The following morning, a group of his squadron mates gathered at the airfield at Échemines to bid him farewell as he took off in his Hurricane to fly to Le Mans to collect his kit.

    Unexpectedly, Kain began a "beat-up" of the airfield, performing a series of low level aerobatics in Hurricane Mark I L1826, a Hurricane fitted with a fixed-pitch wooden propeller. He commenced a series of flick rolls to the left and on the third roll the plane lost speed at a height of about 800 feet, stalled, and spun in. The fighter hit the ground heavily in a level attitude.
    Kain died when he was pitched out of the cockpit, striking the ground 27 m in front of the exploding Hurricane. "Cobber" Kain is buried in Choloy Military Cemetery.

    This record is currently closed until 01/01/2064 I assume as someone made an enquiry on file circa 1972 - If any personal information contained as a result of this then it could be redacted to allow file to be released

    Reference Number: TNA1645122027V43

    5) AIR 81/3200 Sergeant S Duszynski (Polish): missing believed killed; enemy action, Hurricane R2682, 238 Squadron, 11 September 1940. 01/01/2075

    Stanislaw Duszynski was born on 28th October 1915 in Torun, Poland. He served in the Polish Air Force, possibly as an instructor at Deblin, before escaping to England through Romania and France though the details are currently unknown. He went to 15 EFTS Redhill for a refresher course and then arrived at 6 OTU Sutton Bridge on 1st August 1940 to convert to Hurricanes.
    Duszynski joined 238 Squadron at St. Eval on 2nd September. He failed to return from a combat with Ju88's over Romney Marsh on 11th September and was reported 'Missing'. Flying Hurricane R2682

    This record is currently closed until 01/01/2075 A Hurricane excavated at Little Scotney Farm, Lydd on 13th January 1973 proved to be R2682, flown by Duszynski on his last flight. -> I assume this triggered this long close date - If any personal information contained as a result of this then it could be redacted to allow file to be released

    Reference Number: TNA1645122238W83

  2. #232
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Paul,
    Good work. The correct serial for the Blenheim mentioned in AIR 81/2117 was of course L9210.
    I have adjusted our database accordingly to remove the incorrect links to the Wellington.
    Andy

  3. #233
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Now have the FoI Case numbers as I chased them as not received

    Please accept our sincere apologies, as it appears our usual automated acknowledgement emails were not sent. I can confirm that we received the following record requests on 17th February 2022, and assigned them the corresponding case references:

    AIR 81/1831 - Pilot Officer H A Lovell: killed; aircraft accident, Waltham Abbey - CAS-84230-V7V8W4

    AIR 81/1823 - Flying Officer C P S Smith, Leading Aircraftman L D Stratford: killed - CAS-84231-J5J6Y0

    AIR 81/2117 - Sergeant J J Grierson, Sergeant J W Paul, Aircraftman J Paterson: killed - CAS-84232-J2C9B6

    AIR 81/2221 - Flying Officer E J Kain: killed; aircraft accident - CAS-84233-B9P8D5

    AIR 81/3200 - Sergeant S Duszynski (Polish): missing believed killed - CAS-84234-L0H9G7

    We will respond to you by 18/03/2022 19:00 in accordance with the 20 working-day time period laid down by section 10 of the Act.

  4. #234
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Thank you for your enquiry regarding a review of:

    AIR 81/1831 – Pilot Officer H A Lovell: killed; aircraft accident, Waltham Abbey, Hurricane L1724, 151 Squadron, 18 February 1940

    AIR 81/1823 – Flying Officer C P S Smith, Leading Aircraftman L D Stratford: killed; aircraft accident, Margam Range, Wallace K4340, 7 Bombing and Gunnery School, 11 February 1940

    AIR 81/2117 – Sergeant J J Grierson, Sergeant J W Paul, Aircraftman J Paterson: killed; shot down, enemy action, Blenheim P9210, 82 Squadron, 17 May 1940

    AIR 81/2221 – Flying Officer E J Kain: killed; aircraft accident, Hurricane L1826, 73 Squadron, 7 June 1940

    AIR 81/3200 - Sergeant S Duszynski (Polish): missing believed killed; enemy action, Hurricane R2682, 238 Squadron, 11 September 1940

    Just to update you, we are currently undertaking some redaction work in relation to these records, as well as a couple of other AIR 81 files. We will contact you again shortly when that work is complete and let you know a date that they will be available for viewing.

  5. #235
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Yes, that is correct. The above files will all be opened shortly with minimal redactions relating to personal information of certain individuals assumed to be alive.

    I’ll provide some more information relating to the individual files later.

    I am also processing the following files for opening, but these will take a little longer as a Public Interest Test, (PIT), is required for these two. -

    AIR 81/1989 - Pilot Officer J M Davies, Flying Officer L A McSherry, Leading Aircraftman M H Costello, Pilot Officer K R B Ainsworth: killed; Pilot Officer G W Salzgeber: injured; aircraft accident, Northcote, Whitley K8957, 10 Operational Training Unit, 8 April 1940.

    AIR 81/1769 - Sergeant T Watkins: killed; aircraft accident, Oxford N4721, 8 Flying Training School, 4 January 1940

    Just as a bit of background, the public interest test process is a rigorous one for historical files at The National Archives as it requires independent evaluation. Broadly speaking, the PIT process takes place over two stages:

    Stage One - Government department performs the PIT test.
    It is the responsibility of the transferring government department, (MoD in this case), to perform the PIT test where they consider the public arguments in favour of, and against, the release of the information.

    Stage Two - Independent evaluation
    This occurs through consultation and approval of the Advisory Council on National Records and Archives (ACNRA) representatives, who approve the use of the qualified exemption via what we refer to as a Panel. Panels are comprised of three members of the Council who are sent the necessary papers and asked to consult as necessary and report their conclusions to the Secretary of the Advisory Council. The public interest test considerations are provided to the Panel by the department who transferred the file, not by The National Archives. The Panel may then ask questions about the application of the exemption and/or query any aspect of the case with the transferring department and The National Archives. The Panel’s decision about whether the exemption is justified is finally communicated to the FOI Assessor handling the case, who will then inform the requester in writing.

    The information being considering under the Public Interest Test in this instance, (potentially distressing descriptions of fatal injuries), forms only a very small part of these files, and as they contain no other sensitive information, again the redactions, if decided to be necessary under the PIT, would be minimal.

    Anything redacted from a file at The National Archives will at some point be reunited back into the parent record once the information ceases to be sensitive, and the 100 year rule generally applies to the sort of information in theses AIR 81 files. (ie it would only be sensitive for the life time of the individuals concerned, which is 100 years from their estimated birth. - So for example a close relative who may be distressed by content in the record, or the personal contact details of a member of the public communicating with the Air Ministry/MoD, would be withheld until such time they were either proven to be already deceased, or 100 years from their birth.)

    I should also mention that the criteria relating to the review of closed records for opening to the public is dictated to The National Archives by the Freedom of Information Act, rather than any strategy initiated by the National Archives themselves. We have no choice but to work within the confines of these regulations, as do all government departments. It has to be said that the procedures can appear rather bureaucratic in nature.

    I hope the above explains a little of the processes involved regarding requests for these closed files.

  6. #236
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Paul -- that's extremely helpful. Thank you.
    http://dambustersblog.com
    http://www.breakingthedams.com

  7. #237
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Update

    Thank you for your enquiry regarding a review of:

    AIR 81/1831 – Pilot Officer H A Lovell: killed; aircraft accident, Waltham Abbey, Hurricane L1724, 151 Squadron, 18 February 1940

    AIR 81/1823 – Flying Officer C P S Smith, Leading Aircraftman L D Stratford: killed; aircraft accident, Margam Range, Wallace K4340, 7 Bombing and Gunnery School, 11 February 1940

    AIR 81/2117 – Sergeant J J Grierson, Sergeant J W Paul, Aircraftman J Paterson: killed; shot down, enemy action, Blenheim P9210, 82 Squadron, 17 May 1940

    AIR 81/2221 – Flying Officer E J Kain: killed; aircraft accident, Hurricane L1826, 73 Squadron, 7 June 1940

    AIR 81/3200 - Sergeant S Duszynski (Polish): missing believed killed; enemy action, Hurricane R2682, 238 Squadron, 11 September 1940

    I am pleased to tell you that in consultation with the Ministry of Defence, it has been decided that AIR 81/1823 can be opened in full, (copy attached for your convenience), and a redacted version of AIR 81/2117, AIR 81/2221, and AIR 81/3200, will be made available for public viewing at The National Archives, Kew by 26 April 2022.

    With regard to AIR 81/1831, we are still in the process of redacting this file, and we will contact you again as soon as the work is complete to let you know when it will be available for accessing.

  8. #238
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    AIR 81/1823 – Flying Officer C P S Smith, Leading Aircraftman L D Stratford: killed; aircraft accident, Margam Range, Wallace K4340, 7 Bombing and Gunnery School, 11 February 1940

    AIR 81/2117 – Sergeant J J Grierson, Sergeant J W Paul, Aircraftman J Paterson: killed; shot down, enemy action, Blenheim P9210, 82 Squadron, 17 May 1940

    AIR 81/2221 – Flying Officer E J Kain: killed; aircraft accident, Hurricane L1826, 73 Squadron, 7 June 1940

    AIR 81/3200 - Sergeant S Duszynski (Polish): missing believed killed; enemy action, Hurricane R2682, 238 Squadron, 11 September 1940

    All Now Opened 20th April 2022

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  10. #239
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    AIR 81/1831 – Pilot Officer H A Lovell: killed; aircraft accident, Waltham Abbey, Hurricane L1724, 151 Squadron, 18 February 1940


    Further to my e-mail of 14 April, I can now confirm that a redacted version of this record will be made available for public viewing at The National Archives, Kew by 4 May 2022. Please accept my apologies for the delay.

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  12. #240
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    Default Re: RAF Casualty Packs 1939-45 Public Access

    Paul

    Grierson et el were lost in Blenheim L9210, P9210 was a Wellington.

    DaveW

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    paulmcmillan (28th April 2022)

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