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Thread: A non-comm?

  1. #1
    apanderson Guest

    Default A non-comm?

    Hello all,

    I'm looking for a wee bit of advice . . . . .

    I came across a grave-stone recently in Old Monkland Cemetery, Lanarkshire, Scotland for a man I can't find listed on the CWGC Site. I tried every variant of his name I could think of.

    He is however, listed on SNWM and his details are as follows:

    Surname CAIRNS
    Firstname John
    Service number 1345858
    Date of death 24/06/1943
    Decoration
    Place of birth Coatbridge
    Other
    SNWM roll ROYAL AIR FORCE and DOMINION AIR FORCES
    Rank L A C
    Theatre of death R.A.F.V.R. C.C.

    Son of John and Lily Cairns (nee Smillie)

    Could someone advise me of whether he is a non-comm, or to come under this category would he have to be unlisted on SNWN too?

    Thanks in advance,

    Anne

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    Hi Anne
    He was an Airman, the rank is in your list -LAC = Leading Aircraftman so he would not have been Commissioned. The term non-comm is an unofficial term for Non-Commissioned Officer(NCO) and would be used for ranks from Corporal (Junior NCO) up through Sgt, Flt/Sgt to Warrant Officer (Senior NCO's).
    Regards
    Dick

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    Hi,
    It may be that Anne meant non-combatant, even so, i can't understand why he is not listed on CWGC.

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    Hi Alan
    His name didn't come up when I put the details from Anne's post into SNWM either.
    Regards
    Dick

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    Hi Dick

    It does come up:

    http://www.snwm.org/cgi-bin/db_w2.pl?function=view&id=51911

    A

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    I take it RAFVRCC stands for RAF(VR) Coastal Command, as a few examples all seem to be such squadrons?

    A

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    You are right Amrit - someone in Scotland doesn't like my PC!!
    Dick

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    Anne,

    This may only 'muddy the waters' in the investigation of your enquiry but on searching the CWGC for CAIRNS casualties with parents forenamed John and Lilly I have found two brothers, both RAFVR, who's parents names and address are the same in the CWGC records.

    Neither of these brothers fit your original post's description in regard to service number, date of death or burial location. The one buried in Zimbabwe may be safely discounted, the other is commemorated on the Runneymede Memorial and therefore has no known grave.

    The parent's names Lilly and John (James) in these CAIRNS records may be within the bounds of coincidence, I leave it to you.

    Here are the links to CWGC records for the above named CAIRNS:

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2617213

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1531047
    Last edited by Ken MacLean; 19th April 2008 at 20:19.

  9. #9
    apanderson Guest

    Default

    My goodness, I didn't expect so many replies so quickly! Thank you all very much.

    I must apologise for my 'terminology' - I actually meant 'non-commemorated'.

    I should really have explained the whys and the wherefores first, then asked my question.

    Recently, I have been photographing all the 'war-graves' in Old Monkland Cemetery in order to post them onto the Scottish War Graves Project. ( http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/index.php?mforum=scottishwargraves ) along with as much info on each individual as possible. Obviously the men/women who are buried there are listed on the CWGC website, but it is our collective aim to record stones bearing all the names of those who we know aren't buried there and attempt to identify each individual i.e. if there is a memorial/marker/stone in Scotland, they will be included. I'm so used to the term 'non-comm' being used to mean 'not commemorated', I didn't think before jumping in with two big feet!

    The inscription on the stone reads:
    "Erected by James Cairns & Sons in loving memory of his dear wife & their fond mother LILY SMILLIE who died 31st March 1938 aged 40 years
    Also my dear son JOHN L.A.C., R.A.F.V.R., age 21 who died on active service on 24th June 1943". (John, I know isn't buried there but as I said previously, his name is on a stone in Old Monkland)

    I found his details on SNWM but couldn't find a 'match' on CWGC, so I presumed he wasn't listed. I haven't visited any of the links posted in the above messages yet - I thought I'd explain myself properly first and I also realised that I had given the father's name as John when it should have been James.

    Anne
    Last edited by apanderson; 19th April 2008 at 20:59.

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    The GRO WAR DEATHS R.A.F.ALL RANKS (1939 to 1948) has his unit at time of death as 9(O) AFU.
    9(Observer) Advance Flying Unit was based at RAF Penrhos near to Pyllheli.
    Regards
    Andy

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