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Thread: CWGC List of Civilians killed by crashing aircraft

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    Default CWGC List of Civilians killed by crashing aircraft

    (Mods - you can move this to the reference section when you want, thought folks might like to read it first)

    Ancestry.com this weeks added a new database to their collection which is basically the scans and transcriptions of the Civilian deaths registers from their collection, nothing new there from what is on their website. However, they have one strange 8 page list which they have titled simply
    Other Civilians and upon looking at it, its was is a list of Civilians who were killed, largely, by aircraft, Allied and German, crashing onto them during the war in England. It may well be a post war list as I think its written in Ball point pen.

    I've pilfered the 8 pages and combined them in a pdf, its located here.
    http://www.skynet.ie/~dan/war/CWGC-OtherCivilians.pdf

    The format is that the surnames in the fourth column are the civilian casualties names, and using the date and surname one can find them on the CWGC database (I hope!)

    Interesting thing is it lists the aircraft serial number in many cases and details how many were on the plane. Have a look, this may be an old out of date inaccurate list. Don't tell ancestry !!

    (Sorry, the pages are not in order, stupid free PDF software) (And the incidents might all be in the London area by the looks of it.)
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hello Dennis,

    That's very interesting reading. Thanks for taking the time to make the pages into a PDF.

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    Dennis great find thanks - I have just sent you a correctly formatted version

    Page 5 (correctly numbered) Surrey Carshalton Victims: Bridge x 2 24 Feb 1940 Foresters Drive, Wallington Blenheim L6724

    this was 92 Sqn I believe Warner has this incident mis-identified as L8400 of 23 Sqn on 20 Feb 1940. here are my notes on 'L8400 '


    Warner: "Caused Civilian Casualties" maybe this is another accident at Wallington Surrey on Saturday 24th Feb where mother and young daughter died when a RAF plane hit a house. Pilot Officer Pilot Officer Reginald Jerveland Whitmarsh #41889 killed. Mrs Doris Bridge (35), of Forresters Drive Wallington and her daughter, Jill (five). Mr Montague Bridge (36). who was taken to hospital, was discharged yesterday. Seven other people were treated for shock but were not detained .The 'plane, in which the pilot was the sole occupant, had on just taken off from Croydon aerodrome, when, losing height, it struck the roof of a house. The petrol tank exploded and the machine crashed into the road Destroying a car, then hurtling across the roadway, it struck two garages and a terrific explosion followed. Firemen and A.R.P. wardens with rescue parties were rushed to the scene this was Blenheim L6724 of 92 Sqn


    I have some of detail on this at crew of 23 Sqn Blenheim L8400 baled out for record: Sgt Ian Nicholson MacRae #565633, AC2 Reginald Walter Cullen #75242 and AC David Hilary Peulevé #614230
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 8th November 2013 at 09:04.

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    BTW some of the Civilian details can be confirmed by date with CWGC and BMD records for instance

    28 October 1940 Marlowe Road, Walthamsow, Essex Riley * 2 and Telling * 2 "Victims fell into Camouflet"


    Telling Georgina A (Alice) 45 Essex S.W. <- On CWGC
    Telling Gladys L (Lilian) 21 Essex S.W. <- On CWGC
    Riley William H 76 Essex S.W. <- Not On CWGC (maybe not involved)
    Riley Maureen B (Betty) 10 Essex S.W. <- On CWGC

    RILEY, PATRICIA MAUD Civilian 28/10/1940 13 <- On CWGC not on BMD (may account for missing body mentioned in text)
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 8th November 2013 at 12:58.

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    7 July 1941 Cox x3 Unknown Spitfires at Mertyr Tydal is this incident

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...85-Died-7-7-41

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    There are some rather horrible tragedies on that list from a brief bit of goggling last night.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Huddersfield 6/7/1944 Pilot (Blezard) from 13 OTU doing aerobatics over parents house & lost control.

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    Thank you Dennis

    Regarding one of crashes Hudson T9320 15.8.1940 (initially incorrectly stated in records as P9320) and I wrote to CWGC some years ago that their statement of enemy action for Mr & Mrs Craig and John Scott Whittaker (also spelt John Scott Whitaker), was wrong.

    John Scott Whittaker was a representative of the Sperry Company and on board the 15 August 1940 Hudson.

    Balloon Command raised the balloons in front of the Hudson as she was taking off from RNAS Eastleigh (HMS Raven), but the Balloon Squadron and Balloon Command made the crash time later to 17.27 hrs to coincide with a time just after the 'Red Warning' had sounded.

    The crash actually occurred at 17.20 hrs BEFORE the Red Warning. The Court of Inquiry established that the crash occurred during a Yellow period.

    I have found a letter at TNA (in Admiralty files) written a few days later to the Royal Navy by Dowding stating that balloons should only be raised on the receipt of the Red National Warning in accord with AMC Orders, that balloons should not be raised on local orders and that to raise balloons at other times outside of the National Red air raid system was in breach of Air Ministry Confidential Orders. I have also found the Home Office related correspondence on the matter.

    It was also said that Captain Coulson had received Coastal Command orders for part of his crew to travel back (return) by rail, but this was struck out so there was obviously no such order.

    I was in touch with his family members in Canada, one of whom has a letter written by a witness who attended a local Inquiry at Eastleigh and she clearly states that balloon barrage was at fault.

    Earlier that day as Whitley P5044 (my Grandfather was Air Observer) approached the south coast (around Portsmouth) in distress firing Red Flares, the balloons had also been raised at Portsmouth and Gosport without proper authority. The air raid times in the Southampton Fire Brigade Log indicate that NO such Air Raid Warning had been issued as the Whitley approached our coast and therefore the balloons had also been raised earlier that day in contravention of the same AMCO.

    The Balloon Control Controller was supposed to check with Group that there were no possible friendlies in the area. The HQFC Observer Watch Log indicates that all returning aircraft were friendly and no enemy raids were reported in the Whitley area for some hours.

    Those in charge in the area refused to give any Whitley crash time and the Balloon Centre/Command collision report was never put on the AIR 14/341 file according to the Minute Sheets, but likely passed to Group Capt Ops at Bomber Command and has yet to be traced.

    I am still researching.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 9th November 2013 at 12:25.

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    The PDF file linked to in my first post is now updated correctly to read page 1 to 7, thanks to Paul McMillan who got to this before I got a chance to fix it in work.
    Cheers
    D
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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