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Thread: Loss of Wellington 1c T2893 214 Sqn 29-30 Nov 1940

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    Default Loss of Wellington 1c T2893 214 Sqn 29-30 Nov 1940

    Looking for any details of the loss of the above aircraft thank you.
    Regards,
    Rol

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    Rol, Hi,
    Sgts Claude Horace BAIN, and John RAGGENBASS both killed (from Malcolm’s rafweb) in T2893 which crashed shortly after t/o from Elmdon on a delivery flight. Might have been more on board if it was its way to the ME? Local newspaper might have more?
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    2 killed 3 injured.


    Suffered an engine failure and could not maintain height. Landing flare failed and hit trees 01:10 hrs on the 30th.


    Pilot was S/L B J McGinn


    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Default T2893

    You might be interested to know that T2893 doesn't actually appear anywhere in 214 Sqn's ORB.

    And S/L McGinn only appears once, on 14/11/1940 where he is mentioned as flying in an op to Schiphol airfield, the crew being from the "Reserve Squadron". I never did get to find what that meant.

    Ian

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    From my trilogy For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: Fates 1915-1942':

    Fri 29/Sat 30 Nov 1940
    Bomber Command
    Special flight to Malta
    Reserve Flight, 214 Squadron, RAF (Stradishall, Suffolk - 3 Group)
    Wellington IC T2893 - took off captained by Sqn Ldr B J McGinn, RAF, but later experienced an engine failure and could not maintain height. At 0100 T2893 struck trees, crashed and caught fire at Elmdon, Essex. The pilot and an air gunner both died, the latter being buried at Haverhill, Suffolk. Three others of the crew were hurt and it is thought that one of these died of his injuries the following April. McGinn was a highly experienced pilot with more than 4200 hours to his credit.
    Air Gunner: NZ401220 Sgt Claude Horace BAIN, RNZAF - Age 23.


    And amendment from Vol Three (Biographies and Appendices):

    took off at 0051 and crashed at Poplar Farm. There were six crew, of whom Bain and an RAF WOpAG were killed. McGinn in fact survived, injured, as did the remaining three.

    Errol

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    Hello All,
    Thanks to everybody for your help. My wife works with a relative of Sgt J Raggenbas who had asked if I could find some details of the incident.
    The information I have got so far (of course it may not be correct) :-
    T2893 flew to Malta on a special operation to Malta on Sat 30.11.40 at 0100 hrs from RAF Stradishall suffered engine failure, returned to land but Flaps failed & unable to maintain height struck trees, crashed & caught fire at Elmdon Essex 0110 hrs. Two crew killed Three injured.
    S/L B J McGinn inj.
    Sgt J Raggenbas WO/AG 20 k.
    Sgt C H Bain RNZAF 23 k.

    Thanks to all,
    Rol

    Sgt J Raggenbas is buried at Stockport Cemetery (Willow Grove) Sec X Grave 13300 His name appears on the War Memorial at Dumfries Scotland.
    Last edited by Roundhead; 4th February 2014 at 21:28. Reason: More info

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    Thanks to members & others a update of the latest information I have gleaned.

    This is described by Duncan Wood who remembers:-

    'I was only 6 at the time & I slept through the crash itself, even though I was sleeping on that side of the house. My mother woke me & I remember the room being filled with light & the yard was filled with an assortment of folk - firemen, RAF personnel etc.'

    According to the Pilot of T2893 who spoke to my parents they were on a 'secret mission to Cario' he thought 'the plane had been sabotaged as he couldn't gain height' The Navigator said he thought 'they were running into cloud', but realized that could not be possible and 'that they were actually crashing into trees'. There were certainly no bombs aboard. There were 6 crew. The route may have been Base-Gibralta- Malta- Cario.

    Duncan mentions 4 other incidents:-

    1. There was another one loaded with bombs that crashed into our meadow on the other side of the house.
    2. A German I think which crashed into the neighbor's field just past were T2893 crashed.
    3. One just over the edge of our farm to-wards Ickleton.
    4. One in Strethall when I was nearly killed by a alternator that hit next to the path were I was walking.

    Any ideas?

    Regards
    Rol

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    Interesting that landing flares were mentioned in #3 post (Ross McNeill), these were carried by most multi-engined RAF aircraft during night flying from about mid-1930s, the theory being that as they descended following engine failure, they could release one or both of these flares to try and establish what type of country lay below so as to enable the pilot to choose the best landing site available, which sometimes was far from ideal. However at least you might avoid flying into a hill or perhaps into trees or a stone wall. These were a type of parachute flare and were probably a considerable advance on the earlier type of fixed flare caried under the wingtips of most single-engine aircraft of the time. I think later single engine aircraft expected to operate at night were also equipped with the later parachute landing flares.
    David D

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    Default Crash at Poplar Farm

    The piolt told my parents that they were on a secret mission to Cairo, so I guess Malta was a refueling stop. He said that he thought the plane had been sabotaged as he was unable to gain height and when the navigator said they were running into clouds, then he knew they were crashing into trees. By the way This Elmdon is in Essex, not far from Duxford, and is NOT to be confused with Birmingham!
    Duncan

    Quote Originally Posted by Errol Martyn View Post
    From my trilogy For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: Fates 1915-1942':

    Fri 29/Sat 30 Nov 1940
    Bomber Command
    Special flight to Malta
    Reserve Flight, 214 Squadron, RAF (Stradishall, Suffolk - 3 Group)
    Wellington IC T2893 - took off captained by Sqn Ldr B J McGinn, RAF, but later experienced an engine failure and could not maintain height. At 0100 T2893 struck trees, crashed and caught fire at Elmdon, Essex. The pilot and an air gunner both died, the latter being buried at Haverhill, Suffolk. Three others of the crew were hurt and it is thought that one of these died of his injuries the following April. McGinn was a highly experienced pilot with more than 4200 hours to his credit.
    Air Gunner: NZ401220 Sgt Claude Horace BAIN, RNZAF - Age 23.


    And amendment from Vol Three (Biographies and Appendices):

    took off at 0051 and crashed at Poplar Farm. There were six crew, of whom Bain and an RAF WOpAG were killed. McGinn in fact survived, injured, as did the remaining three.

    Errol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roundhead View Post
    Hello All,
    Thanks to everybody for your help. My wife works with a relative of Sgt J Raggenbas who had asked if I could find some details of the incident.
    The information I have got so far (of course it may not be correct) :-
    T2893 flew to Malta on a special operation to Malta on Sat 30.11.40 at 0100 hrs from RAF Stradishall suffered engine failure, returned to land but Flaps failed & unable to maintain height struck trees, crashed & caught fire at Elmdon Essex 0110 hrs. Two crew killed Three injured.
    S/L B J McGinn inj.
    Sgt J Raggenbas WO/AG 20 k.
    Sgt C H Bain RNZAF 23 k.

    Thanks to all,
    Rol

    Sgt J Raggenbas is buried at Stockport Cemetery (Willow Grove) Sec X Grave 13300 His name appears on the War Memorial at Dumfries Scotland.
    I am researching those named on the Dumfries War Memorial.
    JOHN RAGGENBASS was born in 1919 in Dumfries. His father, Jacob, was Swiss and had married a local girl, Agnes McLachlan in 1918 in Glasgow.
    John's sister, Isobel Brooks Raggenbass was born in 1925 in Dumfries.
    At some stage the family moved to Stockport which is why John was buried there in 1940.
    The family were at Newport Avenue, Reddish, Stockport in June 1947 when Jacob became a naturalized British subject.
    (London Gazette 18 /7/1947 p.3362)
    Isobel married Gordon Bowker in Stockport in 1951.

    Ken

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