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Thread: 4 Engine Aircraft in North Sea

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    Default 4 Engine Aircraft in North Sea

    Hi my name is Kevin Smith and I am chairman of a group of divers that search and dive on historic shipwrecks.
    We have found the remains of a 4 engine aircraft in the North Sea 27 miles off Mablethorpe. I hope that someone here could help identify this aircraft.
    Some artifacts have been recovered by the French Navy and we have dived and taken a video of one of the engines ( sorry about the quality of the video but the visibility was poor and the current was strong) but hopefully someone may be able to help us with this new project.
    We would like to identify this aircraft and make a documentary of the planes history and how it came to be in the sea and contact the relatives of the crew to tell them were their loved ones came to rest.
    We think it is a WW2 aircraft and think it is British as there are 303 shells around the site.
    I have contacted many people including RAF Hendon Duxford BAAC Ross McNeill and other aviation sites and they all tell me that there are no records of a Sunderland off the Lincolnshire coast
    My French friend says
    Hi Kevin
    I send you the pictures of the artifacts we found on this wreck.
    I dive on it and i remember that it was a 4 engines in star "12 cylinder i think !!"
    There was no fuselage, only the engines, the cable on the wings and where the fuselage was and the cockpit on the sand.
    But we don't photography it !

    Mark Evans from BAAC says RE: BAAC Web Form: General BAAC Enquiry

    Kevin,

    The radio component is very helpful. We think you have parts of a1082/1083 Transmitter/Receiver. The 1082/1083 was superseded by the T1154/R1155 in bombers around 1942. I've been on a Wellington crash site from July 1941 which has the R1155. We should be able to get more details of when the 1082/1083 went out of service. The early radio is consistent with the 1939 date on the direction indicator instrument - that doesn't imply 1939 is the date of loss of course, but it does suggest an early-war loss.

    One possibly id is Halifax II (Merlin engines) R9450 of 35 Squadron, which is recorded as crashing 30 miles off Mablethorpe at 23.00 on 9 March 1942. It had taken off at 19.16 from Linton-on-Ouse, bound for Essen. The crew of 7 were never found, so R9450 must be considered a war grave. This may not be the correct ID, because the 1082 radio may have gone out of service by March 1942.

    In the Halifax, the navigator sat below and in front of the pilot, whereas in the Lancaster he was behind the pilot, at the same height. If the ICAN was forward of the cockpit area, that would suggest a Halifax - but of course wreckage can move around on the sea bed.

    We'll try to get a better date for the radio.

    Regards,

    Mark
    BAAC
    We now know that it is not this Halifax as it has Pegasus Radial engines and this Halifax had Merlin Engines.

    After many hours looking through sites it seems that we have found an early Sunderland as every one tells me that the only 4 engine aircraft with Bristol Pegasus engines is a Sunderland but as yet it seems that no Sunderland`s were lost of the Lincolnshire coast
    Please look at the video and photos and see if any one can shed some light on this aircraft.
    See the photos here http://s925.photobucket.com/user/kws...?sort=3&page=1
    Thanks
    Regards Kevin Smith

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    As Sherlock Holmes says


    "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."

    So if no Sunderland were lost in the area it cannot be one


    No other 4 engine Pegasus aircraft were produced


    So you have eliminated a Pegasus for the engine type


    This leaves that the "12 cylinder i think" could be something else, say 14 cylinder (radials usually have odd numbers of cylinders per row)


    The Hercules would be more common for Halifax and Stirling losses in this area.


    How about 5314N 0030E?


    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 9th February 2014 at 15:24.
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    How about a Mk II Lancaster with radial engines?

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    Sorry Tony no MkII Lancs recorded lost in that locality and not with 12 cylinder radials.


    Ross
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    Discounting the query over the number of cylinders, it should be possible to distinguish between Pegasus and Hercules as the latter were double row. The video appears to suggest a single row engine, but I'm open to correction! The other 4-engined possibility with a single-row engine is a B-17, though the radio evidence must count against that.

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    Default 4 engine aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross_McNeill View Post
    As Sherlock Holmes says


    "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."

    So if no Sunderland were lost in the area it cannot be one


    No other 4 engine Pegasus aircraft were produced


    So you have eliminated a Pegasus for the engine type


    This leaves that the "12 cylinder i think" could be something else, say 14 cylinder (radials usually have odd numbers of cylinders per row)


    The Hercules would be more common for Halifax and Stirling losses in this area.


    How about 5314N 0030E?


    Ross
    Hi Ross
    We are certain that the engines are Bristol Pegasus as they are single row and the Bristol Hercules are twin row. John Evans at Pembroke dock says they are Pegasus.
    Have you got an aircraft loss in the co ordinates you give have you got any more info on this one please.
    Regards Kevin

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    Well what you insist you have found is rare in the extreme.


    A 4 engined, 12 cylinder Pegasus powered aircraft in an area where none were lost (or produced).


    Ross
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross_McNeill View Post
    Well what you insist you have found is rare in the extreme.


    A 4 engined, 12 cylinder Pegasus powered aircraft in an area where none were lost (or produced).


    Ross
    Hi Ross
    Our French friends only thought it was 12 Cylinder we think it is 9 Cylinder looking at the spacing between the pots.
    Kevin

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    Default Bristol Engines?

    G'day Chaps

    The following eight Bristol Poppet-Valve engines are nine cylinder:


    Pegasus XC

    Pegasus 22

    Pegasus XVIII (87 Octane)

    Pegasus XVIII (100 Octane)

    Mercury XV (87 Octane)

    Mercury 25 (100 Octane)

    Mercury XX

    Mercury 30

    .................................................. ....................

    Bristol Proteus nine-cylinder sleeve-valve engine

    Bristol Jupiter nine-cylinder radial engine
    …................................................. ......................

    Bristol Perseus XII nine-cylinder radial engine

    Bristol Perseus XIIC nine-cylinder radial engine

    Bristol Perseus 100 nine-cylinder radial engine

    NOTE: The Perseus engines were used on the Short S.23 Empire Flying Boats

    Cheers...Chris
    Last edited by Dakota; 10th February 2014 at 00:55. Reason: Edit

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    Dakota,
    I have two problems with the above list of nine-cylinder Bristol air-cooled radials:

    1) I have never heard of a Proteus radial engine, am only aware of the well-known large turbo prop developed for heavy commercial aircraft (Brabazon and Princess come to mind), and finally installed and put into service in the Britannia by BOAC about 1956, after which it had a relatively succesful career.

    2) The S.23 Empire flying boat was powered by the poppet-valve Pegasus; the slightly later S.30 featured the sleeve-valve Perseus. In fact the engine installed was the primary diffrence between these two very similar aircraft, although cruising range was also increased.

    David D

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