Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Spitfire VB AD329 in 412 Sqn and later

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    apart
    Posts
    166
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Spitfire VB AD329 in 412 Sqn and later

    On 5 November 1941 Spitfire VB AD329 was damaged cat. C in an accident at Wellingore. The pilot was P/O J.G. Magee J5823 (known to all as the author of 'High Flight').
    I am trying to find out subsequent whereabouts of this Spitfire.
    According to its Movement Card it was undergoing repairs until 19 December 1941.
    But the ORB of the Polish 317 Sqn has multiple entries for AD329 between 11 November and 1 December 1941.
    Can anyone provide details of the extent of damage on 5 November to help assess the likeliness of it being back in service within a week?
    Is there any reference to this aeroplane in 412 Sqn ORB (or other documents) after the accident?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bewdley, UK
    Posts
    2,703
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    F1180 records it as M(u) - Wing tip struck ground.

    So sounds like if it was restricted to tip damage is should be capable of repair on site by either unit or visiting repair party.

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    apart
    Posts
    166
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Ross!

    If that was the case, I wonder why it has not resumed service with 412 Sqn?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    122
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Wojtek,
    I had a look at Jim Halley’s Air Britain Military serials and it lists the following 412Sqn, 403Sqn,416Sqn, 610Sqn, 308Sqn, 130Sqn, Collided on the ground with a Typhoon.
    Also had a look at the Morgan/Shacklady tome Spitfire The History there is more detail.
    AD329 LFVb, 12MU 30-9-41, 412 Sqn. 10-10 (presume 1941) AST (Air Services Training ) 19-12 M55M instal, 403Sqn 24-4-42, 416Sqn 3-6-43. 610Sqn 13-6 (43?) 308Sqn 3-7, 130Sqn 22-8, FACE 25-11 (Flying Accident Category E)

    There is no mention of 317 Sqn.
    Items in parenthesis are my additions. Would the date 19-12 mean that it went to AST at that time?
    Hope this helps.
    Regards
    Tony K

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    628
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    G'day Chaps

    A little trivia about this Spitfire. It was coded VZ*B and nicknamed 'Brunhilde' while in service with No. 412 'Falcon' (F) Squadron. Magee flew it on several combat sorties.

    It also took part in the Dieppe Raid on the 19th of August 1942 while with No. 403 'Wolf' (F) Squadron.

    No. 317 'Wilno' (F) Squadron used Spitfire Mk. Vb's from October 1941 to September 1943. No evidence that AD329 ever served with this squadron

    Cheers...Chris
    Last edited by Dakota; 29th March 2014 at 19:04.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Horsens, Denmark
    Posts
    465
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I think the 317 Sq. aircraft you are looking for is AR329.

    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I don't have access to movement cards for Spitfires but I think John is on the right lines this is most likely an ORB recording error. The bible says that AR329 was not on 317Sqn until Mar42. It seems that AD321 was on 317 Sqn at the same time in Nov41 does it appear in the ORB at the same time as AD329?

    Steve

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    apart
    Posts
    166
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Gentlemen,
    Thanks for all the replies and apologies for my delayed reaction.

    Tony,
    Yes, it seems the Spitfire did go to AST on 19-12-1941. It was certainly not for fitting of Merlin 55M (which would be equivalent to modification to LF.V standard which did not exist at the time!).

    Dakota,
    Thanks for that! Are you aware of any photos of the Spitfire while with 412 Sqn?

    John,
    AR329 was built in 1942, so it could not have been in use with 317 Sqn in late 1941. It was, indeed, used by 317 in 1942, but that's certainly quite another story.

    Steve,
    I have not done a day-by-day check, but there is no apparent obvious equivalence of appearance/non-appearance between AD329 and another serial in the ORB. It could be a misspelling for several serials on various occasions (such as AD321 plus AD269). And 317 Sqn ORB was notorious for misspellings or completely confused serials. But in this particular case I cannot quite rule out AD329 actually being in 317 Sqn for a while. The fact that we are speaking of a Spitfire that was most certainly flown by P/O Magee makes it even more intriguing for me to check it thoroughly.

    So, let me rephrase my original question which seems to have been lost in the discussion:

    1) Can anyone provide details of the extent of damage on 5 November to help assess the likeliness of it being back in service within a week?
    (The 'wing tip struck ground' might be equivalent to 'minor scraps to wingtip' but it could also mean 'wing and u/c seriously damaged'.)

    2) Is there any reference to this aeroplane in 412 Sqn ORB (or other documents) after the accident?

    Wojtek

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello... my name is Ray Haas and I am mere weeks from the publication of my complete John Magee biography ("Touching the Face of God" ... it's about time after 24+ years of research!). As such I have photos, 53 OTU and 412 Sqdn ORBs, Magee's logbook, accident reports, etc. In relation to Spitfire VZ-B, AD329, relative to John Magee, I find these items:

    1. There is no entry regarding a crash on 5 November 1941 in the 412 Squadron ORB.
    2. In Magee's logbook, there is a relevant entry for 5 November. In his 2nd flight in VZ-B, Magee notes: "Climbed to 36,000 feet - Crashed." He further notes: "Poor Brunhilde."
    3. There are no further flights recorded for VZ-B in Magee's logbook.
    4. A Form 765, "REPORT ON FLYING ACCIDENT OR FORCED LANDING NOT ATTRIBUTABLE TO ENEMY ACTION" shows an incident dated 5th November 1941, 412 Sqdn at Wellingore, involving Magee, J.G. and Spitfire VB AD-329.
    4a. The SUMMARY OF PILOT'S REPORT states:
    "The Pilot reports, "At 11.30 hours on 5.11.41 I made a bad landing in Spitfire VB AD-329 resulting in a high bounce, and owing to coarse rudder control and my failure to open the throttle, the left wing tip hit the ground causing damage to the mainplane."
    4b. The TECHNICAL REPORT states:
    "On inspection it was found that the port wing of the aircraft had struck the ground, causing the following damage: Port mainplane buckled, Damage to pitot head."
    4c. The GENERAL REMARKS states:
    "This pilot has shown above average flying ability up to the time of this accident. It is felt that this accident should eradicate any tendancies towards carelessness which he may have had."

    I will post the relevant files in another reply.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Well, I could not manage to directly load the image of Magee with Brunhilde. However, until I figure it out, here's a link:

    http://x.co/4d6nR

    This photograph (cleaned up, of course) is going to be on the cover of my book.

    Hope this works!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •