Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Blenheim (35 Squadron)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Blenheim (35 Squadron)

    Does anyone happen to have the movement card for Blenheim N6175 (as the RAF Museum does not have it in its collection)?

    Also, can anyone identify the 35 Squadron Blenheim which was damaged on 22/01/1940?

    Regards

    Pete
    Last edited by PeteT; 4th April 2014 at 13:51.
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    621
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteT View Post
    Does anyone happen to have the movement card for Blenheim N6175 (as the RAF Museum does not have it in its collection)?

    Also, can anyone identify the 35 Squadron Blenheim which was damaged on 22/01/1940?

    Regards

    Pete
    Hello Pete

    N6175
    Robertson's Military Aircraft Serials for Bristol Blenheim IV states N6140-6174, 6176-6220, 6223-6242.

    Some of the aircraft type files in AVIA 46 have the RAF serial lists in (Blenheim file not seen), so you could try checking the Blenheim file when next at TNA:-
    AVIA 46/110 Bristol Blenheim Ministry of Supply: Establishment, Registered Files (Series 1). Type biographies and sources. Bristol Blenheim. 1935 - 1943

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 4th April 2014 at 20:22.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Mark, I will follow that up.

    I have a similar listing to you plus the Air Britain listing showing N6175, so there is obviously some confusion over this aircraft. I may make the assumption that it was not on strength of 35 Squadron (until proven otherwise).

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    621
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Pete

    Regarding a/c serial numbers have you tried enquiring to http://www.bristolaero.com/about.htm

    The records of the Bristol Aeroplane Co are at the RAF Museum, according to "Records of the British Aviation Industry In the RAF Museum", online doc.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 5th April 2014 at 18:57.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Thanks again Mark

    I will follow your leads and see if I can arrive at any firm conclusion on the matter.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Just resurrecting this thread to see if anyone can help out with identifying the serial number(s) of these two Blenheim accidents:

    22/01/1940 F/O RB Barker collapsed aircraft on landing at base
    30/03/1940 F/L J Paine damaged wing and undercarriage on landing

    Any help would be much appreciated

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Limerick, Ireland.
    Posts
    457
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hi Pete,

    As part of my work for the EAGLES OVER EUROPE project a few years ago the fates of Blenheims N6175 and N6176 caused me a great deal of trouble, and I am still not certain if my conclusions are correct.
    Firstly I asked the RAF Museum for the Form 78 and Form 1180 (9-7-1940) for N6175. They replied they had neither. I did obtain the F.1180 for N6176 (9-7-1940) but did not request a copy of the F,78 for the latter.
    The fates of Blenheims N6175 and N6176, and to a certain extent their service histories, have become mixed in the Air-Britain ‘L1000-N9999’ serial register. If you have it you will note both have very similar fates on the same date. At first I made the mistake of believing there were two separate accidents but that is not the case.
    There is no mention at all of N6175 in the well-maintained ORB (AIR 27/801) of 101 Squadron from January 1939 to February 1941. N6176 was Taken On Charge by 101 Sqn. on 7 March 1940 from 35 Squadron (this detail from the 101 Squadron ORB). It flew operationally once with 101 Squadron, on May 2nd, and the only other entry was on July 9th recording the accident.
    Both William Chorley and Graham Warner agree it was N6176 involved in the 9 July 1940 accident, and the Form 1180 confirms this.
    A question arises as to where Jim Halley obtained the unit and fate details for N6175 when he compiled ‘L1000-N9999’. Did he then have access to a Form 78 which has subsequently been lost ? Or was the entry the result of an error ? I think the latter most likely, because the fates for the two Blenheims as he published them are different versions of the same outcome.
    He states N6175 served with 107, 35 and 101 Squadrons. As noted above there is no mention of it in the 101 Squadron ORB from January 1939 to February 1941 inclusive. Nor in the more sparse 35 Squadron ORB from November 1939 to March 1940 inclusive (it ends here). I also checked the detailed 107 Squadron ORB from May 1939 to July 1940 inclusive. Again N6175 is not recorded once.
    I recall my teachers often telling us to read and reread the exam questions. Having just gone back to the thread a line in Mark’s reply caught my eye, where he listed the Blenheims in that batch of N serials. These total exactly 100. In Jim Halley’s ‘L1000-N9999’ there are 101 serials, the difference appears to be the inclusion of N6175. A ‘blackout gap’ of one is unusual, perhaps unique. Maybe this caused Jim to believe it should be included despite the missing Form 78. So it seems possible N6175 was never built at all.
    Any comments on this would be very welcome.
    .
    Concerning the serials for the two damaged Blenheims of 35 Squadron.
    I assume you have looked at the 35 Squadron ORB which does not have that level of detail.
    I have gone through the Air-Britain serial registers and found 33 different Blenheims used by 35 Squadron, including 6 Mk. Is. Now one could write to the RAF Museum for all 33 Form 78s but that might be the hard and long way – and with no guaranteed success either.
    Instead I suggest you write looking for the Form 1180 Aircraft Accident Cards for both; quoting date, aircraft type, unit and perhaps the pilot’s name. If F.1180s were made out and kept then they should be able to find them even without the serial, especially at this ‘quieter’ period of the war.
    If you try this route I would be very keen and grateful to learn the results.

    Regards,

    Martin Gleeson.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Martin

    Thank you for putting in the time and effort on this subject; it is very much appreciated.

    I have been working on the basis that N6175 was not on strength of No 35 Squadron for the purposes of my research (but I always operate with an open mind)

    I am interested in the fact that you managed to trace 33 serial numbers allocated to No 35 Squadron as I have only managed to track down (and obtain the AM78) for 22 so far. I haven't had the chance to chase down the 1180. Would it be possible for you to provide me with a listing of the serials that you have come up with?

    Regards (and thanks again for your help on this)

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Limerick, Ireland.
    Posts
    457
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hi Pete,

    Glad it helped. I will have to work further on that list tonight, or as time allows. Clearly you have been hard at work on this too !

    It seems certain that N6175 was not with 35 Squadron - or any other unit ! I think now it was never built, but would like to have that confirmed or otherwise.

    Martin.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Limerick, Ireland.
    Posts
    457
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hi Pete,

    As promised a list of all the Blenheims that served with 35 Squadron, or at least those that I can find. Any comments, corrections or additions most welcome.

    35 Squadron Blenheim List.
    (with emphasis on their allocation after 35 Sqn. was disbanded in April 1940)

    Mk. I (6)
    K7115 Taken on Charge by 35 Sqn. 23-2-1940. To 17 OTU 22-4-1940.
    K7116 Taken on Charge by 35 Sqn. 22-3-1940. To 17 OTU 22-4-1940.
    L1100 to 40 Sqn.
    L1203 to 108 Sqn.
    L1205 to 17 OTU
    L1310 to 17 OTU

    Mk. IV (26)
    L4888 to 35 Sqn. from 101 Sqn. on 7-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB), to 17 OTU
    L4889 to 35 Sqn. from 101 Sqn. on 15-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB), to 17 OTU 22-4-1940.
    (I have this F,78)
    L4891 to 17 OTU
    L4892 to 35 Sqn. from 101 Sqn. on 15-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB), to 17 OTU
    L4894 to 17 OTU
    L4895 to 17 OTU
    L4898 to 35 Sqn. from 101 Sqn. on 9-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB), to 17 OTU
    L4900 to 17 OTU
    L8845 crashed 12-3-1940
    L8846 to 17 OTU
    N6166 to 101 Sqn. on 7-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB)
    N6174 to 101 Sqn.
    ( N6175 Did not serve with 35 Sqn, probably not built, no Form 78 )
    N6176 to 101 Sqn. on 9-3-1940 (101 sqn. ORB) (I have the F.1180 for 9-7-1940 with 101 Sqn)
    N6181 to 101 Sqn.
    N6182 to 101 Sqn. on 15-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB)
    P4900 to OATU
    P4907 to 17 OTU
    P4912 to 101 Sqn. on 2-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB) (two periods with 35 Sqn.)
    P6905 to 101 Sqn.
    P6906 to 101 Sqn. on 2-3-1940 (101 Sqn. ORB)
    P6907 to 108 Sqn.
    P6908 to 101 Sqn.
    P6918 crashed 6-4-1940
    P6919 to 17 OTU
    R3620 to 17 OTU
    R3621 to 17 OTU 22-4-1940. (I have this F.78)

    Details taken from the Air-Britain Serial Registers, Form 78s and ORBs.
    One would have to speculate based on the dates known above that all the transfers to 17 OTU took place on 22 April 1940.
    Hope we can sort out those two missing accident serials. In that regard I think P4900 looks a possibility for one of them due to the later allocation. Do you have the F.78 for that one ?

    Regards,

    Martin.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •