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Thread: Hampden Crash - Cliffs of Dover ?

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    Default Hampden Crash - Cliffs of Dover ?

    All,

    Is there any record of a Hampden from 5(c) OTU Turnberry (possibly 1 TTU) crashing into the Cliffs of Dover sometime after Sept. 1942 (firm) to Jan 1943 (approx) while on a training exercise? I cannot find any such accident.

    TIA
    Rodger
    In remembrance of the crew of Halifax HR732
    51 Squadron Snaith - All LWT Leipzig 4 December 1943

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    I've had a quick look through the Hampden File by Air Britain and also a database loaned me recently by an enthusiast.

    I can find plenty of Hampdens of various marks and this includes several flying into cliffs or high ground. Nothing with Dover, however.

    Several years ago I had details of a collision, the location was shown and was near where I lived. I trooped off to the village in question and my enquiry about the commemoration was met with a blank look from all and sundry. I subsequently found that the place of the crash was at one of the several other villages in the UK with the same name. Perhaps there is a place near Dover which is replicated elsewhere in UK and the names have become confused over time.

    As an aside, I was once stationed at RAF Brampton and was with some friends in a pub/hotel in the nearby village. A middle aged couple arrived and lumbered in with their suitcases etc and asked to book in. Blank stares from the staff until it was realised that there was a pub of the same name near the village of Brampton in Cumbria - mere 160 miles further up the A1!!!!

    Colin Cummings

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    Thanks Colin. You may very well be correct as this "story" has been passed around my family for years and likely morphed a little with each iteration.

    Cheers
    Rodger
    In remembrance of the crew of Halifax HR732
    51 Squadron Snaith - All LWT Leipzig 4 December 1943

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    Rodger,

    Is there anything more stated about this apparently elusive loss? Names, unit, outline circumstances. There is likely to be more than one way to eat this particular elephant and so perhaps we can help by coming at it from a different angle.

    Colin Cummings

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    Here is the crew
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...s-Hampden-Crew

    My father, passed away a few years ago, was the pilot - he rarely talked about the war. My mother says that while he was medically grounded for a sinus operation (shortly after arriving in Turnberry 5c OTU) his crew were all killed on a training exercise - crashing into the Cliffs of Dover. Would a "pilotless" crew even train with an alternate pilot at OTU?

    The only connection I can make is the crew must have re-crewed up with MacKay (Nav) going to an all RCAF crew piloted by Montgomery - they crashed/all killed while at 415 squadron on a fighter affiliation exercise 3 April '43. No idea what happened to the other two crew members (Faucus and Ingleson both RAF WAG) but must have survived. I have contacted 415 squadron and they have no record of them.

    From my father's service record and logbook I do not see how he could be engaged with a second crew although there is a huge gap in his log book from late Sept 1942 (Turnberry) until Jan 1944 (back to Canada - 4 SFTS Saskatoon). He returned to Canada on the Queen Mary October '43.

    Kind of fishing on this one but trying to get the story straight

    TIA
    Rodger
    Last edited by rmventuri; 11th June 2014 at 17:13.
    In remembrance of the crew of Halifax HR732
    51 Squadron Snaith - All LWT Leipzig 4 December 1943

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    Try this for size.

    Hampden L4084 415 Sqn 3 Apr 43 dived in from 2000 feet during a fighter assimilation exercise and all four on board killed.

    They are buried together in Littlehampton Cemetery, Sec D Graves G4270 to 4273

    WOII Donald Montgomery R101199 RCAF
    WOII William MacKay R107062 RCAF
    F/S John William Whipple R105760 RCAF
    F/S John Douglas Scott R98256 RCAF

    This information from TSGNO and the Handley Page Hampden Crash Log.

    Incidentally, the aircraft had suffered an accident when operated by 5 (C) OTU at Turnberry but had been repaired.

    I can find no record for Faucus although an Ingleson was killed a year later but is probably not the man you name

    You mention your father's log book and gaps in it - you need his Record of Service to fill in the gaps!

    Colin Cummings

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    Thanks Colin
    In remembrance of the crew of Halifax HR732
    51 Squadron Snaith - All LWT Leipzig 4 December 1943

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    Dear Rodger
    I found this. There is a photo of Montgomery.
    http://www.chilliwackmuseum.ca/WW2_M_names.html
    Best wishes
    James

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    Cross posting the request brought this up as having been discussed earlier.http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/10471.php Photos of the graves are on http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php#16
    under the relevant letter in the RAF Graves section.

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    Thanks James and Pete

    Rodger
    In remembrance of the crew of Halifax HR732
    51 Squadron Snaith - All LWT Leipzig 4 December 1943

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